Quote
The Anticult
If Ikeda has been mia for a couple years, he is probably having health problems, and someone else is calling the shots now at SGI.


As far as the SGI-Chanting...it really is so absurd.
If one takes themselves out of the situation, and looks at it from the outside...
How can chanting some syllables do all of these things?

In fact "SGI chanting" for a problem, is going to make it worse. Because instead of problem solving, and then coming up with a strategy to solve the problem, and then taking action on it, nothing is going to happen.
Its a recipe for disaster.
If your roof has a hole in it, and you do SGI-chanting to fix it, then water is going to leak in, and destroy your house.
So in that sense, SGI-chanting is very damaging.
Because instead of doing what needs to be done, some SGI people chant.

Its the same with New Thought, and various other techniques. They sound harmless, but in fact are harmfull.

If you are having chest pains, or dizziness, then SGI-chanting could kill you. Because if you are having a heart-attack or stroke, you need to get the Emerg right away.

The idea that SGI-chanting is going to solve their life's problems is completely absurd.

Frankly, Ikeda and friends know this, and that is great for them, as when SGI chanting does NOT work, they tell people to chant harder, and give SGI more money.. So SGI always wins.

Anti-Cult, you're my new hero on this mb. :-))

Quoted again for truth:

"As far as the SGI-Chanting...it really is so absurd.
If one takes themselves out of the situation, and looks at it from the outside...
How can chanting some syllables do all of these things?"

And . . . .

"So in that sense, SGI-chanting is very damaging.
Because instead of doing what needs to be done, some SGI people chant."

I can attest, I've seen this very thing happen, over and over again, with many members in the cult. It's a crutch for them to go on "avoiding" the problem, while believing that they are actually doing something to fix it.

This kind of behavior is just plain stupid, pathetic and sad.

The SGI Charter and how they break it:

Purposes and Principles

1. SGI shall contribute to peace, culture and education for the happiness and welfare of all humanity based on Buddhist respect for the sanctity of life.
As in harassing ex-members and the priesthood, being a Japanese centric organization and firing faculty who don't tow the "soka" line (@ SUA).

2. SGI, based on the ideal of world citizenship, shall safeguard fundamental human rights and not discriminate against any individual on any grounds.
As in once encouraging gay members to become "straight", operating an undemocratic hierarchical and oppressive organization and segregating their own members into different "divisions" (MD, WD, YMD, YWD, etc.).

3. SGI shall respect and protect the freedom of religion and religious expression.
By actively encouraging its membership to not keep "slanderous" objects in their possession once they become "members."

4. SGI shall promote an understanding of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism through grass-roots exchange, thereby contributing to individual happiness.
How about promote a false, misunderstanding of the precepts of actual Buddhism by distorting them to your own advantage and using them to manipulate other people.

5. SGI shall, through its constituent organizations, encourage its members to contribute toward the prosperity of their respective societies as good citizens.
And make a lot of $$$$ so that they can contribute it back to the organization as a show of their appreciation for making that prosperity possible in the first place.

6. SGI shall respect the independence and autonomy of its constituent organizations in accordance with the conditions prevailing in each country.
Which is why only Japanese top leaders often run the show.

7. SGI shall, based on the Buddhist spirit of tolerance, respect other religions, engage in dialogue and work together with them toward the resolution of fundamental issues concerning humanity.
As in speaking with a forked tongue, by "officially" saying one thing, yet actually doing the opposite in reality.

8. SGI shall respect cultural diversity and promote cultural exchange, thereby creating an international society of mutual understanding and harmony.
Just so long as everything remains Japanese centric with the organization: bonding with "sensei", giving "zaimu", working for "kosen rufu", etc..

9. SGI shall promote, based on the Buddhist ideal of symbiosis, the protection of nature and the environment.
By being a parasite off of its membership and society in general (religious tax-free status, etc.).

10. SGI shall contribute to the promotion of education, in pursuit of truth as well as the development of scholarship, to enable all people to cultivate their individual character and enjoy fulfilling and happy lives.
The promotion of a "Soka" education, their *own* version of the "truth" and discouragement of critical thinking amongst its membership and especially its youth.

**********

These are all just quick one-offs from the top of my head as to how they break every single precept of their own charter. I'm sure there are many more that others can probably come up with and share. This list is far from complete and many more examples exist under each category.

This cult is a joke.

Its easy to use any false argument for any sect or Guru.

When the Guru gets sick, they say they are taking on the "bad karma" of their FOLLOWERS. They blame the followers, they always do this, you could list countless Gurus who do this.

Or if bad things happen to the country, they blame the country in general, for not being SGI enough, etc.
Not just SGI does this, but all kinds of cults and some religions.

The New Thought crooks also tell people they can avoid natural disasters by Thinking correctly.
Its all nonsense of course.
Hopefully humans will mature in a modern age, and realize things like earthquakes and the like are just acts of nature, and sometimes you get unlucky.

And of course, being a responsible adult means living in a earthquaked-proofed area, or moving away!
And not living on a flood plain behind a leaky dike, etc.

Human's seem to have primitive superstitious stone-age brains, full of irrational fears and primitive beliefs.
And SGI and many other cults exploit those primitive beliefs and emotions, and make a lot of cash doing it.

The idea that SGI-fake-chanting will save people from earthquakes in a extreme earthquake zone, is literally an insane delusion.

and of course not just SGI does this to people.
It looks like EVERY single sect and cult does the exact same thing.
They give their followers a FALSE belief that _______ will solve your problem.
But _______ does NOT.
So then you need more coaching, books, programs, seminars, and to give more donations.

LGAT seminar do the same thing, so they have a customer for life, who never improves. Perfect.
They set people up to fail intentionally.

As well, us humans seem to be superstiitious by nature, and they exploit that.

SGI-chanting cannot solve any problem, the avoidance will make it worse.
Like if we don't have a job, SGI-chanting is not going to do anything! But going to see a career counselor to do some planning and research, then getting your stuff together, and applying for jobs everyday, and doing 50 other things, might actually help get that job. At least you are trying to do something about it.

But when people are fed the FALSE-BELIEF that SGI-chanting or _______ will work, then instead of doing what needs to be done, the person sits on their knees and chants, and thinks a job is going to walk up to their door.
Its a self-delusion.

Like if your DVD player broke, and you wanted a new one, but didn't want to buy one.
If you are a SGI-chanter, you might chant for a few weeks, and then one day a DVD player is in the stairwell of your building...a MIRACLE!
No.
Because a non-chanter also realizes people put their working old DVD players out for others, and if you keep out an eye, you might see one.

You notice what you are looking for.
SGI is just a very primitive yet sophisticated con-job.
And many many other sects and cults use the same techniques.

I knew one SGI believer who used to CHANT over his old CAR so it would not break down!
Of course, it would break down all the time on the road, and cost MORE in towing as instead of chanting for his car, he should have saved his cash, and taken the car to a mechanic to get it fixed.

SGI is installing delusions, and even "insane" delusions in some of their followers.

Quote
Hitch

"So in that sense, SGI-chanting is very damaging.
Because instead of doing what needs to be done, some SGI people chant."

I can attest, I've seen this very thing happen, over and over again, with many members in the cult. It's a crutch for them to go on "avoiding" the problem, while believing that they are actually doing something to fix it.

This kind of behavior is just plain stupid, pathetic and sad.

Ikeda seems to have followed the ideas in The Art of War.

That is, using DECEPTION against your opponents and enemies is great, by any means necessary.
And you are an opponent of Ikeda, if you are not in his immediate family.

Guys like Ikeda are usually real cynics about the human masses. (that includes the thousands of SGI believers).
They believe people want to be deceived, as they can't handle the truth.
So Ikeda deceives them, and sleeps very well at night.

To be fair to the SGI (although I have no idea why I should be), I've heard many leaders say that you have to use common sense (!) in your practice; i.e. go to the doctor when you're ill, etc. Having grown up in the practice, my parents never replaced a doctor with chanting. If I needed medical attention, I went. The chanting was a supplement to that. It would make sense for the SGI to tout this kind of reasoning: if you get better, hey, the chanting worked! If you don't, maybe you should've placed more emphasis on the chanting and less on the doctor's treatment.

In my opinion, chanting is just a bunch of superstitious, hocus-pocus nonsense. I've got no problem with someone chanting if they want to use it as some sort of meditation activity to help calm their mind or whatever. But chanting for money, a car, a house, etc.? It's absolutely amazing what grown adults can be tricked into thinking.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2012 03:58AM by SGBye.

Quote
SGBye
To be fair to the SGI (although I have no idea why I should be), I've heard many leaders say that you have to use common sense (!) in your practice;

They always prefaced it with the ol' "common sense" remark, but like you said, when "common sense" didn't even yield satisfactory results, they would fall back on the chanting excuse by default again. Also, I very rarely saw members put that so-called "common sense" into practice and they would just chant, & chant & chant.

On a general note: is it even really possible to be mega-superstitious, partake in twice daily (sometimes more) rituals . . . . . AND "use common sense" at the same time? I think there's something inherently wrong with this equation/notion/expectation.

Quote
The Anticult
The idea that SGI-fake-chanting will save people from earthquakes in a extreme earthquake zone, is literally an insane delusion.

It's also being scientifically illiterate. (Cue in somebody trying to explain chanting in the same sentence with "Quantum Mechanics" now . . . . . )

Quote
Hitch
It's also being scientifically illiterate. (Cue in somebody trying to explain chanting in the same sentence with "Quantum Mechanics" now . . . . . )

Heh! You folks are having waaayyy too much fun in here, but in doing so perhaps we are risking detachment with the people who really need to hear a voice of good sense as it relates to the SGI Cult ?

For some pages now the discussion has been gradually sharpening, but in just the last couple have turned a corner from my point of view.

Amidst all the jeering about the silliness of chanting, or of how prayer is worthless and such, I've decided to throw my two cents in. Perhaps my own silliness is on display, but nevertheless I'll put it out there...

Let me pose a question: The motivations for faith and hope - is it really all just a load of hooey? If so then can we also consider beauty the same way, as just some gathering of synapses in the mind of the person experiencing it, just a load of hogwash since it is basically chemical and electrical activity anyhow?

And what of "truth"? Isn't it also just a random gathering of some facts that just happen to align with an agreed upon standard held by some group of like-minded individuals? Wouldn't you say there is really no such thing as truth as well?

Yes, and then what of good and evil? Aren't they just some arbitrary representational system that supports one or the other point of view and in fact there is really no difference between either?

Of Faith - just a state of mind some dimwitted people use to hide the inevitable disappointment that comes from living in a random universe filled with essentially dead matter and nothing more?

And hope... isn't that just a load of wishful thinking that people use to feed their addiction to believing that things will work out okay in the end? Silly rabbits!

Say what you will about the ten worlds, it is certainly right in its characterization of shomon and engaku (learning and absorbtion) and how it can truly be a "false heaven" since people in that state believe they have all of the answers and perhaps even believe they even have "attained".

So, I wouldn't confuse the flim-flammery of the cult with the honest motivations of ordinary people (among whom we once numbered ourselves) to feel and think in a way that sustains them to strive for a higher ideal. Some were inept, some lacking insight, but I don't think anyone set out to commit evil by practicing.

Some may escape from the cult's grip and find other ways to sustain themselves, and others may stay and (sadly) continue to run on the hamster-wheel, but at some point you have to recognize that there are elements of the universe and human psychology that simply cannot be put into a clear zip-lock bag and nailed to the wall.

Now, as for the quantum mechanics justification, let me put on my propeller hat. There is a good book in the bookstores called "The Quantum Mind" by: (I forget his name) that talks at good length about the universe(s) and how little we really know from our vantage point within the fishbowl. Of particular interest is what has been learned about element of causality and superposition of realities. Spinning protons and anti-protons that seem to violate causality, quantum tunneling, etc. Besides all that, it seems we do our share of editing and manipulating reality as we process our quantum environment (i.e. making selections which then create outcomes - sounds a lot like hope and change....)

I know, it all sounds pretty crazy, but Richard Feynman was pretty much considered a nut too in the early days of his work and now he is considered the patron saint of quantum mechanics. Lots of spooky physics that nobody understands yet goes on in the universe and much of it confounds our instrumentation.

Okay, I'll now return you to the regularly scheduled programming...

Wakatta1

PS: It's turtles all the way down they say.....



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2012 11:02AM by wakatta1.

It can be helpful to have some direct bluntness for a change, other than the endless loop of turtles all the way down...as stated. People get mindfucked daily in countless cults, with all sorts of complex arguments. Its part of the strategy of the cult called Programmed Confusion.

For some people, they might think a new thought one day...hey this SGI-chanting is sheer bullshit.
And that simple idea, might help to extract them from the SGI spiders-web.

Lots of people seem to say, hey SGI chanting is fine, its just the SGI-org that is the problem.
But what if the SGI-chanting is not ok? What if it is the fish-hook bait designed to hook people into wishful delusional thinking? (like how TM uses a mantra, every cult has its hook).
What if SGI uses their SGI-chanting ruse as a tactic to hunt for fresh meat?
Of course that is what they do.

Notice I say SGI-chanting.
Not "chanting".

Human's have always chanted.
When you chant, you are taking deep breaths, and slowly releasing the air, so you will feel more calm.
It can also be done without any chanting, slow deep breathing for relaxing.

Since this is not a cult, and is not a SGI-cult, of course each person needs to use their critical thinking abilities, and come to their own conclusions about what is right for them.
Maybe they might think, SGI-chanting is bullshit.
Or maybe not, maybe they will think something else.

But its essential to separate out the cultic indoctrination of SGI, from the "religion" and from the philosophy or various sideroads.

So each person will come to their own conclusions of course.