I have never been in SG but have met so many people in my part of the US who were chanters that this information is a shocker. It makes me sad that so very many nice people I met were, without knowing it, supporting a personality driven dictatorship.

Worse, one that manages to be tax exempt due to its claim to be a religion.

The other day, I visited a local cemetary and wandered to one area that housed niches for people's urns and ashes. The modern niches commemorated very many who had perished in the grim years of the AIDS pandemic.

I was floored to see one glass fronted niche with a smiling portrait of a handsome nice looking man, and on the glass, the words of the Nichiren chant.

If that young man had lived until today, he would have probably been heart broken to learn what had been behind those words he had so trusfully chanted, perhaps hoping doing so would cure AIDS or prolong his life. During the terror years of the AIDS pandemic (1981 to 1996) people were trying everything to cure or at least halt the progressing of the disease. Those were the years you saw people wasting away, getting thin, pale, going from being ambulatory, to needing a cane, then to needing a friend at one's elbow, then to needing a wheelchair, pushed by a friend or practical support volunteer.

The saddest state was when people were unlucky enough to get visible purple blotches of kaposis sarcoma on their faces. They learned to use make up. Some hid in their rooms.

One young boy with purple blotches on his face sat begging money on a streetcorner proclaiming he was using the power of his will to cure himself.

This isnt strictly about Sokka Gakkai, but it may give some insights into Japanese group culture.

Its a memoir by Robert Twigger entitled Angry White Pyjamas.

[www.google.com]

For a year, Twigger lived under the rule of a renowned and harsh Aikido dojo, taking the year long martial arts program all riot police are required to take.

His book may be an interesting comparison to what you witnessed and lived through in SG, because the dojo was a high demand group, was a microcosm of Japanese culture, centered on the personality of its founder.

However, it was not a cult. There was a rough spell where Twigger and one or two classmates seriously hated the guts of an especially brutal instructor.

But the key is - they had the inner freedom to have doubts. To feel fear. And yes, the freedom to dislike and, during one rough patch, hate an instructor who was behaving as a brute and bully.

And the author felt free to consider quitting. Seriously consider quitting.

The master of the dojo had political connections. The Japanese riot police were required to take his year long aikido course. You had to accept the risk of death or injury in order to participate.

But the instructor had earned respect by actual, verifiable accomplishments. He was well off but lived modestly, and didnt go around with a swaggering entourage.

It as also possible to have a social life outside of the dojo, and significantly, one didnt go around doing thought stopping cliches.

Incredible posts from Nichijew, Hitch, KR, bobze39, corboy, wakatta1.

I will add another life situation where die-hard SGI-ers stumble: When a member commits suicide. There was a post back in this thread about a young gentleman who did just that, after his gohonzon accidently suffered damage.
If I remember, they were came down hard on him for that, and the poor guy was overwhelmed.

I have seen where leaders do not know how to handle a suicide..."How can we recruit members if this comes out?"
There is no SGI Frame for it. What a way to be a real Debbie Downer, committing suicide while you're still with SGI.

On revenge and gathering personal information to hit back at someone who's defected: Well, if the Big Guy says he holds grudges, what other green light do they need? They are serving their Mentor.

Quote
wakatta1
@Hitch

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Hitch
It's done all the time in Japan. They just want to go through the motions for formality sake and a tie is always the best possible and preferred outcome to any game of competition in their mind

Heh! That aspect alone is probably the most despicable element in having to deal with SGI "overlords". Endless meetings to get people's feelings on a topic and then the actual decision is made behind closed doors and always in the favor of the Japanese "clique".

You're right, in business the same thing happens. First the underlings arrive to do "nemowashii" (spade work) and then the big kahuna arrives to publically hear the "details", nod sagely, ask a few (usually clueless) questions and then with a flourish announce that "no decision will be made until everyone has had a chance to voice their view". The translation being "we've already made up our minds what we will do, but we need to build top cover because there are those who might oppose it".

I recall reading once that in the royal families in britain, there was a very high level of "insanity" but after investigation they found that it was no higher than anywhere else, it is just to survive in that crazy environment, many of the sane people had to adopt insane ways. I think the same applies to some of the leadership in SGI. Were it a different organization and were there actual ethics involved, you'd probably see more ethical behavior.

But right now, the cards are held by others.

Wakatta1

As Shrek, Wakatta1 and now Hitch always say: "Better out than in I always say" :)

Elizabeth I was kind and compassionate but her privie council and guards were brutal and ruthless. Although England flourished under Elizabeth, the brutal nature of her regime assured the future decline of the british empire. Ikeda is neither kind nor compassionate and his guards and protectors too are ruthless. It is assured the future decline of the Soka Civilization [SGI calls it The Third Civilization].

Nichijew



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2012 03:18AM by Nichijew.

Quote
corboy
The other day, I visited a local cemetary and wandered to one area that housed niches for people's urns and ashes. The modern niches commemorated very many who had perished in the grim years of the AIDS pandemic.

I was floored to see one glass fronted niche with a smiling portrait of a handsome nice looking man, and on the glass, the words of the Nichiren chant.

If that young man had lived until today, he would have probably been heart broken to learn what had been behind those words he had so trusfully chanted, perhaps hoping doing so would cure AIDS or prolong his life.

Some of the more deluded members will do/and have done, exactly the same. They literally go to their graves performing rituals in hope of things that will never come. I agree, it is very, very sad, but such is human nature and magical thinking. In some cases, however, they are quite happy and content in their beliefs in doing so.

Another thing that makes the above story so unfortunate, is that the old nsa of the 70's and into the 80's was not an organization that was comfortable or respectful of the gay community, their rights, their dignity, and their "inherent buddha nature" as "members." They were subtly discriminated against, looked down on, not fully embraced and told to "practice and chant harder" to become straight. I wonder how many of the gay/lesbian members of today are fully aware of sgi-usa's REAL history regarding this issue. They only changed because it affected their bottom line.

Quote
Shavoy
I will add another life situation where die-hard SGI-ers stumble: When a member commits suicide. There was a post back in this thread about a young gentleman who did just that, after his gohonzon accidently suffered damage.
If I remember, they were came down hard on him for that, and the poor guy was overwhelmed.

I have seen where leaders do not know how to handle a suicide..."How can we recruit members if this comes out?"
There is no SGI Frame for it. What a way to be a real Debbie Downer, committing suicide while you're still with SGI.

Some of the stupid leaders with their ignorant "guidance" could probably be held criminally responsible under similar situations if they happened today. If the legal system ever involved sgi-usa in such a case, you'd see a handbook algorithm quickly created with Ikeda and gosho quotes for the leadership on how to respond. With some of the "leaders" I've seen, you wind them up . . . . . and they walk into the wall (completely incapable of thinking for themselves in certain situations).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2012 06:04AM by Hitch.

Quote
corboy
I have never been in SG but have met so many people in my part of the US who were chanters that this information is a shocker. It makes me sad that so very many nice people I met were, without knowing it, supporting a personality driven dictatorship.

Worse, one that manages to be tax exempt due to its claim to be a religion.

The other day, I visited a local cemetary and wandered to one area that housed niches for people's urns and ashes. The modern niches commemorated very many who had perished in the grim years of the AIDS pandemic.

I was floored to see one glass fronted niche with a smiling portrait of a handsome nice looking man, and on the glass, the words of the Nichiren chant.

If that young man had lived until today, he would have probably been heart broken to learn what had been behind those words he had so trusfully chanted, perhaps hoping doing so would cure AIDS or prolong his life. During the terror years of the AIDS pandemic (1981 to 1996) people were trying everything to cure or at least halt the progressing of the disease. Those were the years you saw people wasting away, getting thin, pale, going from being ambulatory, to needing a cane, then to needing a friend at one's elbow, then to needing a wheelchair, pushed by a friend or practical support volunteer.

The saddest state was when people were unlucky enough to get visible purple blotches of kaposis sarcoma on their faces. They learned to use make up. Some hid in their rooms.

One young boy with purple blotches on his face sat begging money on a streetcorner proclaiming he was using the power of his will to cure himself.

This isnt strictly about Sokka Gakkai, but it may give some insights into Japanese group culture.

Its a memoir by Robert Twigger entitled Angry White Pyjamas.

[www.google.com]

For a year, Twigger lived under the rule of a renowned and harsh Aikido dojo, taking the year long martial arts program all riot police are required to take.

His book may be an interesting comparison to what you witnessed and lived through in SG, because the dojo was a high demand group, was a microcosm of Japanese culture, centered on the personality of its founder.

However, it was not a cult. There was a rough spell where Twigger and one or two classmates seriously hated the guts of an especially brutal instructor.

But the key is - they had the inner freedom to have doubts. To feel fear. And yes, the freedom to dislike and, during one rough patch, hate an instructor who was behaving as a brute and bully.

And the author felt free to consider quitting. Seriously consider quitting.

The master of the dojo had political connections. The Japanese riot police were required to take his year long aikido course. You had to accept the risk of death or injury in order to participate.

But the instructor had earned respect by actual, verifiable accomplishments. He was well off but lived modestly, and didnt go around with a swaggering entourage.

It as also possible to have a social life outside of the dojo, and significantly, one didnt go around doing thought stopping cliches.

corboy, what you related about Twigger was very moving. "But the key is - they had the inner freedom to have doubts. To feel fear. And yes, the freedoom to dislike and, during one rough patch, hate an instructor who was behaving as a brute and bully. And the author felt free to consider quitting. Seriously consider quitting."

"But the instructor had earned respect by actual, verifiable accomplishments. He was well off but lived modestly, and didn't go around with a swaggering entourage."

That speaks volumes. P.I. talks about getting "unlimited personal freedom" by practicing SGI Buddhism. Okay, well, if ya can't speak your mind without fear of WD party phones, defamations, vendettas, etc. etc.---ain't no freedom in that.

To add to corboy's post, I also remember in the mid 80-s when people with advanced HIV would come to shakabuku meetings. The look of desperate, last-minute hope on their faces, their bodies in the condition that corboy described. Their sponsor and leaders would be sooo encouraging, telling them that yes, the Gohonzon will turn this bad karma around.

To think it was only 20+ years ago that leaders were also saying NMRK will turn that bad homosexual karma around--yup, just keep chanting!

The leaders were supposed to be impartial, but it couldn't help but slip, sometimes very obviously, their own personal intolerances, in regards not only to gay members, but with people's private sexual mores as well.

Quote
Shavoy
Incredible posts from Nichijew, Hitch, KR, bobze39, corboy, wakatta1.

I will add another life situation where die-hard SGI-ers stumble: When a member commits suicide. There was a post back in this thread about a young gentleman who did just that, after his gohonzon accidently suffered damage.
If I remember, they were came down hard on him for that, and the poor guy was overwhelmed.

I have seen where leaders do not know how to handle a suicide..."How can we recruit members if this comes out?"
There is no SGI Frame for it. What a way to be a real Debbie Downer, committing suicide while you're still with SGI.

On revenge and gathering personal information to hit back at someone who's defected: Well, if the Big Guy says he holds grudges, what other green light do they need? They are serving their Mentor.

Shavoy, that's very good that you brought the subject of suicide.
Japan has the highest suicide rate among industrialized countries. Of course there are cultural reasons. In the past if samurais failed to protect their master, they committed suicide. So called Honor suicide. I learned that from the movie "Ronin" with Robert De Niro and Jean Reno. "Ronin" means masterless samurai, who was expected to commit suicide. If he chose not to do so, he was supposed to suffer great shame. So, after learning that many masterless samurais committed suicide, Robert De Niro character said: "Well, they were wrong". That just about sums it up. So, traditionally people dealt with the loss of honor by committing suicide. "Loss of honor", besides losing a master, included many things. And Japan is very traditional country. So, even nowadays, people sometimes commit suicide after "loss of honor" or "loss of face". What a great environment to drive someone to suicide! All what you have to do is to make this person "lose his/her face", and they will quickly go jump from the building.
So, now we've counted 2 reasons for the very high suicide rate in Japan:
1. People traditionally tend to commit suicide after loss of honor/face.
2. People intentionally make other people lose their face - drive them to suicide.

Which brings us back to the case of Akiyo Asaki.

In 1995, Akiyo Asaki, an outspoken anti-Soka Gakkai city council member in Higashi-Murayama City, was charged with shoplifting (framed). A few months later, she fell to her death from a sixth floor building in an apparent suicide attempt. Her husband and daughter, Daito and Naoko Asaki, filed a law suit against SGI for driving her to suicide. They lost the suit. Which only proves that SGI has its own people everywhere, including law-courts.
That is well-known case. But how many similar cases happened and happening, which are unknown?
I KNOW, that SGI is very good at making people lose face. Sometimes I feel that not just they made me lose my face, but they made me lose the rest of my body as well. As for commiting suicide, I share Robert De Niro's character opinion about it. You see, I am not from Japan, I think that the very concept of "face" is very subjective, and definitely not worth commiting suicide over it.

Bobze39.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2012 07:27AM by bobze39.

Quote
wakatta1
That aspect alone is probably the most despicable element in having to deal with SGI "overlords". Endless meetings to get people's feelings on a topic and then the actual decision is made behind closed doors and always in the favor of the Japanese "clique".

You're right, in business the same thing happens. First the underlings arrive to do "nemowashii" (spade work) and then the big kahuna arrives to publically hear the "details", nod sagely, ask a few (usually clueless) questions and then with a flourish announce that "no decision will be made until everyone has had a chance to voice their view". The translation being "we've already made up our minds what we will do, but we need to build top cover because there are those who might oppose it".

Sgi-usa is just a mini-version of Japan, Inc.. Once you understand that, you understand the crux of the cult.

1) Top-down authority, 2) unquestioning obedience/perennial loyalty, 3) nepotism and 4) group-think mentality with no room for individuality; like the four critical corners to a puzzle.

As for the rest of the puzzle:

Quote
wakatta1
. . . . . the very core of NSA was the WD. Their committment to the organization (good and bad) sustained it, and likely will continue to sustain it. Steady followers, mostly because they don't care about the philosophy or the dogma, but more about having their cultural support system there for them. Want to take a trip to japan? Go to the kaikan. Tatami mats, kanji slogans on the walls, pictures of sensei and other presidents on the walls. Just like back at home in Japan, nice and familiar. That is who will sustain SGI until they ultimately fade away.

Want to know who runs things at the hombu level, the Japanese "big shots" have Japanese wives and the Japanese wives talk to one another. Surprising how things work out for the WD when there is a conflict involving them. I saw plenty of members get "stern guidance" and nary a WD for far more serious offenses. Just sayin....

100% spot-on. For these women, the organization is a comfortable home away from home in a foreign land FIRST and a belief system SECOND. An oasis where they feel secure and can (and do) reign as power wielding overlords. Meetings might have come first and lasted for an hour and a half, but the Japanese food and gossip sessions that followed would last 2-3x as long. Long distant bus trips to big regional meetings? Don't worry, break out the obentos (Japanese lunch boxes), tea and dessert mochis and have a grand ol' party commute. On those same trips, but on different segregated buses, the ymd would be getting yelled at, threatened and having entire commute aggressive, constant, mandatory daimoku sessions for the success of the meeting and to have "no accidents." Ever wonder how they would explain away a bus accident while one of those driving bus tosos was being conducted? Well, one time, one of our busses had engine trouble and we had to be moved to a different bus en route . . . . . . it was the dreaded sansho shima (the mystical resistant forces and devils that conspire to prevent kosen rufu and your practice of the true law) and OUR OWN fault (insincere faith, inadequate practice, not subscribing to the WT with your lunch money or allowance, etc.) !!! Some of the younger ymd members were probably looking saucer-eyed out of the bus windows for the sansho shima devils hiding in the bushes on the side of road (like I said in an earlier post, mental child abuse).

For many, if not all, of those Japanese WD, the organization is their safe little home away from home, surrogate family, which also explains why many of them preferred to be there instead of in their own homes, with their own families. Many were neglectful, absentee mothers. If you happened to have two Japanese parents practicing, it was doubly worse. Your whole family life was a blur and you only saw each other in passing on the way to segregated meetings or at joint (all division) meetings in a public envirnoment. Some of the so-called "fortune babies" grow up to fill the leadership shoes and become the most radically brainwashed new leaders. THEY will be the legacy of the Japansese WD once they are gone. And the cycle will, unfortunately, perpetuate.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2012 07:45AM by Hitch.

PS - To my previous post above - Forgot to add that the MD & WD were always on the real tour type luxury buses (with a bathroom), us YD were often relegated to the long (not short) yellow school buses (no AC) with malfunctioning windows, rock hard ripped upholstery seats, flattened cushions and bad shocks bouncing up and down all the way to and from the venue.

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bobze39
Japan has the highest suicide rate among industrialized countries. Of course there are cultural reasons.

Speaks volumes about the land where the most people practice the true law and Cousin Rufus (see below) is closer at hand than anywhere else in the world. The suicide rate is so high because of the overwhelmingly mentally oppressive system (nationally, regionally, locally and even family level) that is at the very core of being "Japanese." Ironically, it is also why the cult of the gakkai thrives in Japan (where mental health help facilities are practically taboo).

On another note, and as tragic as these events were, being the land of the enlightened, the shoten zenjin didn't protect them from the great Hanshin quake or the horrific 3-11. It's all evidence of cherry picking, confirmation bias and post hoc fallacy thinking used to manipulate the ignorant.

Re: Kosen "Rufu" -

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sushigrl
OMG, my first meeting when I was 15, I heard Forever Sensei, and at the end, when they would sing "Kosen Rufu is the way" I thought they were saying "Cousin Rufus here to stay"!!! I asked who Cousin Rufus was at the end! I should have run from cousin Rufus right then and there. I think I will nickname Ikeda "Cousin Rufus" from now on...it's more becoming. :)

This is the funniest thing I've ever read on this mb! Hilarious!! This literally had me laughing out loud and put a big smile on my face. Thank you!

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sushigrl
Oh gawd. Those Gakkaiers are CRACKERS!!! The thing that attracted me to the practice was the beautiful accessories around the kaikan Gohonzon. How mystical and magical. However, cousin rufus never came out of the butsudan hangar to tell us right from wrong. There was nothing but ego driven "become great-o for cousin rufus"..or as one leader said, "for cousin loof!"

Sadly the Japanese inspired airplane hangar with matching accessories will be going soon. Gonna post it sometime to Craig's list to see if any buddha will bite :)

And "Cousin Loof" . . . . . I SO GET YOUR HUMOR! Again, hilarity and thank you!! I'm never gonna forget this stuff, ever. It is sooooo funny! (Bustudan airplane hanger, btw, . . . . hahahahahahahahaha!!!). My sides are hurting.

And on that note:

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sushigrl
o man, I've been on youtube viewing videos of SGI songs...if anyone wants a good laugh, look up 'Ifu DODo no Uta" banda musical taiyo ongakutai, and others. Gosh I couldn't stop laughing at how serious these guys are.

[www.youtube.com]

OMG, MY EARS, MY EARDRUMS!!! Sounds just like the ol' brass band that I remember. OH THE HORRIBLE MEMORIES!! Look what you've done to me:

[www.youtube.com]

But, seriously, thanks for the memories. It feels good to laugh so much about it all now. "sushigrl", you crack me up!

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cyclops
Even today if a YD makes the statement “Ikeda is my mentor” I will always ask them why – and so far none have given me a good answer! I get foolish responses like – He the president – or because he been practicing for a long time! So I try to fight the good fight when I can. But the Ikedanization will go on until the end of his reign! I fear after that he will be enshrined as a Buddha or Enlighten Sage or some other title of grandeur!

Regarding the bolded above: I've noticed a fairly new trend (?) that seems to be happening in sgi-usa where long time practicing pioneering members are excessively fawned over, especially by the pure-faithed-seeking-pure-heart-spirited youth, as if they were the reincarnation of mother teresa/virgin mary/gandhi/whomever (take your pick) floating into a room with hidden powers and abilities to walk on water, if they so chose. The hungry youth eager to pick up the crumbs of wisdom that they may drop at their feet. The longer I'm around and the more I see and hear, the more it all never ceases to amaze me. It must really stroke some of these pioneering members' mental egos and make them feel better about themselves to be viewed as mini-oracles, when in reality, it's all a facade concealing broken relationships, broken families, broken finances, broken dreams and broken lives behind a false-front. Like I said, living the delusion is preferable for some, to living in reality.

One of my points here is, it appears that the turn to the cult of the "person" is happening in more ways than one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2012 11:57AM by Hitch.