@Nichijew who wrote, "Please tell me how hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in individual salaries [the salaries of more than two hundred executive leaders of the Soka Gakkai], fits into Shakyamuni Buddha's and Nichiren's model of the Buddhist faith." You are right in claiming that Shakyamuni and Nichiren subsisted on the bare minimum and carried out their Buddhist faith. You are right that top SGI leaders from Ikeda on down earn large salaries and wear expensive clothes but neither Shakyamuni nor Nichiren lived in 21st century Japan, a first world country with a huge economy and a typically profitable financial market. Let's not even talk about the India of the past thousand years. It's simply not fair to hold SGI's successful money management against them when the Buddhist founders did not live in a world that resembles ours in the least. Nichiren lived in feudal Japan where beheadings were common and most people never ventured out of a two mile radius in the course of their lifetimes. There wasn't social mobility or a financial market to speak of. Furthermore Nichiren Buddhists are not the ascetic, world-denying types who are more prevalent in Tibet and Southeast Asia. Even in those traditions, the monks are the ones who go to the extremes you are suggesting--and Nichiren was a priest. We are neither monks nor priests, at least I am not. My point is that the typical Nichiren Buddhist (or other sect) is a lay person and lay people have different priorities when it comes to their faith/practice. I stick by my point that SGI is a cult, but not any more so than other religious organizations that are out there which means SGI isn't remarkably evil. Moreover, their diversity and the actual practice make them a little better in my opinion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2011 07:21AM by doubtful.

Greed is greed and has been since the caveman's time and will remain so until man no longer lives on this planet. Likewise, this is true about corruption and duplicity. SGI leaders are laymen. Could you please cite any Buddhist Sutra or writing of Nichiren Daishonin that allows laymen to receive alms? Could you please cite any Buddhist Sutra or writing of Nichiren Daishonin that teaches monks, let alone laymen, to accept so many alms [donations] as to be able to buy mansions, wear brocaded silk robes [or Petrocelli suits], and send their kids to private school?

"A sutra passage likens persons of this type to a hunter who spies sharply about him as he stalks a deer, or to a cat who hides its claws as it creeps up on a mouse. In just such a way, we are told, do they flatter, deceive, and mislead the lay men and women."

That you can't see this, is because you misunderstand the teachings of the Buddha and Nichiren Daishonin.

Mark

This thread is about SGI.

If you look at this site, you will see the Mormon's are classified as a cultish sect, and of course Scientology.
The Roman Catholic church is something else, but of course they are super-rich.

But the Mormons and Scientology, are rich cults.
SGI is a rich cult.

SGI didn't make their money fair and square. The exploited SGI members to get it, pressure tactics, unpaid labor. They manipulate and push people to donate with false pretenses.
Then the money gets dumped into the stock market funds, and SGI makes money from investments in companies that profit from war and death.

The fact that SGI may be the richest cult in the world, controlled by Ikeda, is not flattering.
Sai Baba also controlled billions, and was running an organized crime syndicate, with corrupt police and corrupt governments.

Could you imagine the BILLIONS and BILLIONS Ikeda has placed around the world in offshore accounts in tax-havens? He would have placed billions there, for his own personal slush-funds.

SGI is a terrible organization, especially at the top.

@Nichijew who wrote, "Could you please cite any Buddhist Sutra or writing of Nichiren Daishonin that teaches monks, let alone laymen, to accept so many alms [donations] as to be able to buy mansions, wear brocaded silk robes [or Petrocelli suits], and send their kids to private school?" Mark, I agree with you for the most part. But I am compelled to admit that it's highly unrealistic to expect a religious organization to look like it did 700 years ago. Neither the sutras nor Nichiren anticipated the world we live in now. They probably also did not expect their teachings to be practiced by non-natives. @The Anticult, who wrote "But the Mormons and Scientology, are rich cults. SGI is a rich cult. SGI didn't make their money fair and square. The exploited SGI members to get it, pressure tactics, unpaid labor. They manipulate and push people to donate with false pretenses. Then the money gets dumped into the stock market funds, and SGI makes money from investments in companies that profit from war and death." I AM focused on SGI being the topic of the thread. I am not discussing other organizations, just mentioning them. What does making money "fair and square" mean exactly? Even if SGI tried to be the most virtuous religious organization in the world (and stock market) it would only be a matter of time before some critic would attack them for some investment practice he didn't agree with. My point is that I can see SGI as a cult without holding it to an impossibly high standard. I suspect that many who contribute to SGI like the community centers, Ikeda, FNCC and the feeling that the organization is polished, organized, and affluent. Ultimately I see the members not as blind people being duped and misled, but as willing participants. They ARE worldly and all right with the idea that SGI is not an impoverished religious sect demanding that its members renounce the world. I am looking at my own participation for over 20 years when I make this conclusion. Of course I cannot speak for all the former or current members. I simply suspect that Nichiren Buddhists of SGI are so of this world that they accept much of what SGI serves up. This may explain why many of them stay even when presented with contrary information. Of course this may reflect brainwashing as well, but I suspect that what makes SGI attractive to its members is a fulfillment of their needs.@hertford65 who wrote, "It takes great courage to leave. I was a part of SGI for 20 Years. I only received Gohonzon this year in July and returned it in December. This year I have been on a spiritual journey searching for what, if anything, I want to be a part of. I decided that, after all this time, SGI is not for me. I really like Buddhism. I believe that people should be free to follow what they want to and in their own time. I never did believe in hard sell religions." My spiritual journey included SGI for the same amount of time not just because I was brainwashed but because SGI did fit my needs. My contributions of time and money made the whole experience more meaningful, especially since I accept the idea that organizations are not just born. They must be financed and I wanted to feel a part of. My journey did eventually lead me to less worldly interpretations of Buddhism, but I don't regret my time with SGI.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2011 09:23PM by doubtful.

I merely expect the SGI to act like a Buddhist organization rather than a multinational corporation which exploits the people. My apologies to multinational corporations for placing them on the same level as SGI which is far worse than even BP and TEPCO. BP and TEPCO are upfront about who and what they are. The people know that their motivation is profit. The members believe that SGI's only motivation is compassion and mercy. Those who believe this are as foolish as those who invested with Bernie Madoff.

Mark



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2011 12:30PM by Nichijew.

re: Doubtful . . .

. . . . This may explain why many of them stay even when presented with contrary information. Of course this may reflect brainwashing as well . . .

I hope I am not confusing things by taking this out of context. I usually agree with much of what you say, but the above quote that snuck into your recent post indicates that you are open to the idea of SGI as a cult and the brainwashing that may be happening (recent posts about subliminal messages are facinating too). So, is it that you weren't affected by the possible brainwashing, and all the well-meaning members are not affected by the brainwashing, or are they? Were you? Which is it? Because the more I stand back and observe, the more I see the possibility of something truly evil. The SGI truly seems to be out to profit from the members, caring little about the real growth of their organization; in fact a revolving door with people in and out of the organization almost seems to suit their agenda. The less time people spend really looking into the SGI, the less people that will notice, or say anything about it. When members face financial hardship, does the SGI ever step in and say, "look, you've donated for 10 - 20 years, why don't we give you that $4000 you need to avoid foreclosure." Why doesn't it work that way? Instead they keep pushing and pushing for people to donate, donate, donate. A recent article about the Joplin tornado survivors/members that were visited and encouraged to donate too - after losing everything they owned. What a way to rub in the misfortune they experienced.

SGI takes your time, your money, and only gives the promise to you that you are building fortune from your practice (with surprisingly little focus on correct chanting, correct gongyo and correct study - lately).

But if you meet hard times, you're not chanting enough, or the right way, or your karma is so heavy you better double your efforts for kosen-rufu. They take some more of your life and it gets really confusing to be suffering so much and just hanging on a thread of a hope that you really are building fortune.

They tell you to go find guests, help them get Gohonzon, get them to get a subscription and invite their friends too. Are some of us still really blind to this type of age-old network marketing-type scheme?

I don't plan to spend my time "regretting" my 25 years, but I do plan to be as fully awake now as I possibly can.

"They tell you to go find guests, help them get Gohonzon, get them to get a subscription and invite their friends too. Are some of us still really blind to this type of age-old network marketing-type scheme? backnforth"

Probably more than you realize. I know members who still apply the cold sale method - at parties, family gatherings, on the subway and in the streets. They carry their business cards with NMRK on the front and in the back where they can attend a meeting and learn more about it. It reminds me of the Scientologists approaching people on the streets for the free personality test.

@ScoobyDoody, I'm afraid I was one of those people that you're describing. :) I carried cards and LOVED to give them out. Also I bought little introduction books for $1 and kept a couple with me for emergencies!!!! Was never very good or effective at it, though..........

@backnforth, I can relate to everything you're saying. I too don't spend my time regretting my 33 years spent with SGI/NSA. I had a lot of great times and experiences. But now it's over and my eyes are indeed WIDE OPEN.

Quote
tsukimoto
Yes, this is quite different than the memo sent out to the public, that Simplify posted. The language of the whole Kitano memo is very militaristic. The SGI leadership regarded the SGI/Nichiren Shoshu split as a war, and they consider it justifiable, even good, to do the following:

1. Perform surveillance on people who have joined, or who have expressed interest in, Nichiren Shoshu.
2. Phone people's homes, and listen for background noise.
3. Keep written lists of SGI members/former members who have joined, or expressed interest in Nichiren Shoshu.
4. Monitor priests' activities; confront and harass priests.
5. Members are to seek out information on Nichiren Shoshu priests and lay members, and report this information to their leaders.
6. Members are to pretend an interest in, and friendship for, Nichiren Shoshu members, with the goal of persuading these members to return to SGI.
7. Distribute priests' pictures and information about their whereabouts as if the priests are suspected criminals.

In other words, this is war! Nothing like a war to grab people's attention...and distract them from things that perhaps the leadership does not want them to be asking, and thinking about. No, let's unite people by giving them a common enemy to hate! Let's make them very afraid, so afraid of the evil priests that they'll cling to SGI for safety!

The above instructions are in fact GANG STALKING instructions. Google gang stalking (multi stalking, group stalking, organized stalking, community stalking) and you will see that it is a wide spread phenomenon. TI means Targeted Individual. Organized stalking is a pretty expensive and time-consuming thing. But SGI can afford it - they have billions. Also google soka gakkai organized stalking and you will see that they very much into it.
Here are some links, where Japanese people are talking about being gang-stalked by SGI.

[www.mynewsletterbuilder.com]

On this page you can read a letter by a Japanese immigrant in Los Angeles.

REPORTING TO FBI (OR WHATEVER IT'S CALLED THERE) IN JAPAN

Hello
I'm TI in Los Angeles and came from Japan. I've announced
"the Month for Filing Abuse Reports to Authorities" for a
while to Japanese TI's.
They really got excited to join this project.
It's very terrible condition for TI's there. Because very
powerful cult "Soka Gakkai" as known as Soka Gakkai
Internationl in this country dominate and control
everything with their great number of members. Also
surpport groups are handled with them.
So they remembered to get together against them.
This project works pretty well in Japan.
I'd like to say "Thank you" to you, Connie and the other
people.
And I'd like to introduce one of Japanese support group
"Cult Crime Exterminated" to you. Japanese TI's understand
it's only support group they believe.
They can help your worldwide projects in Japan and ready
to share information. If you have interest, please
contact them.

cultcrimeexterminated2010@gmail.com

Thank you very much, Derrick.
Have a wonderful week!

Right here on Rick Ross a post by another Japanese guy with a link to his web-site:

[forum.culteducation.com]

also

[antigangstalking.join-us.jp]

Group stalking is something very real.
A U.S. Department of Justice special report, January 2009, NCJ 224527, titled
Stalking Victimization in the United States, which is available at this link (as of January 2009):
[ojp.usdoj.gov]
... reported the following statistics showing the occurrence of multiple stalking cases within
the total of all U.S. recorded stalking cases in the 2005-2006 time range:
* 11% of victims said they had been stalked for 5 years or more.
"5 years or more" is very characteristic of organized stalking,
which usually never stops, because the justice systems refuse to acknowledge this crime and
there is no pressing reason for the stalking groups to stop.
An average of 10.6 percent of some 4.6 million stalking and harassment victims don't know
the stalkers, since they're complete strangers.
Almost all organized stalking is carried out by strangers, or
people the target may know by sight but has never interacted with. The "4.6 million" figure
above includes both stalking and harassment victims.
Appendix table 3. Number of stalking offenders perceived by victim:
One 62.1%
Two 18.2%
Three or more 13.1%
Number unknown 6.5%
Total Number of victims 3,398,630
Adding three or more to number unknown, gives 19.6%. That could
suggest something like half a million U.S. stalking victims may be organized stalking targets.
How many of them are stalked by SGI?