v3rsus, I am so sorry about what happened to you. Why do uneducated "leaders" think that they can give you "guidance" like that? I can really empathize with you because I had a very similar experience. When my oldest was little, I wanted to have another baby so bad, but it just didn't happen. Then finally I did get pregnant. Me, my husband, and my little one were so happy. When the pregnancy ended in miscarriage, we were devastated. I received guidance, and I was told the same thing as you were. It was my karma. My fault. I was told not to be "sentimental' about it; it was really no big deal. Just do activities and chant, that was what was important.

My doctor was much more sympathetic and gave me some real advice: he told me to get pregnant again! He said in his experience that was the best therapy for a miscarriage. So I did. Unfortunately, that pregnancy also ended--this time in the second trimester. I did NOT receive any "guidance" that time. The people of SGI knew about what happened, but I did not talk to them about it at all. I could figure things out a lot better on my own than they could!! (This story does have a happy ending--another pregnancy that was successful!)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2010 12:59AM by quiet one.

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v3rsus
@ everyone, hehe: I just feel SO STUPID for allowing myself to get sucked into this crap not once, but twice! Everyone's so nice at first and then once you gain your footing, they're crawling up your ass for money, shakubuku, harassing you to go to meetings and World Peace Gongyo, etc.
I can't bring myself to go to another meeting...for me, it would be my first meeting in Texas. As someone else stated in a post long ago, SGI members talk about you behind your back. I'd be going in with everyone knowing my entire SGI history, as well as the entirety of my personal life. I'm really not emotionally stable enough to dip my body in honey and throw myself to the fire ants. I lost a baby in the 5th month of pregnancy not too long ago. My former district leader told me, as you might suspect, that it was simply my karma. I brought it on myself. I don't care who you are or what religion you follow; you don't say shit like that to a mom who just lost the son she'd so longed to have. Friends and family support you. People who follow any religion usually consider fellow followers friends, at the very least. SGI members are not my friends.
The more I talk, the more things come back to me about shit SGI folks told ME about MY LIFE. And I just went on, letting 'em do it! I sucked it all in like some kind of psycho-sponge for such a long time.
I was ashamed of myself for a while. Finding this forum helped; I know I'm not alone. It's frighteningly easy to get sucked in by these freaks of nature. I'm still shaken up about the whole ordeal, though.
I think I'm going to reply to the latest e-mail from the current area WD leader. I'm gonna tell her I want nothing more to do with her or any other SGI member. And I'm keeping my Gohonzon. I DID pay for it, monetarily and otherwise. I deserve it.

Hi v3rsus:

The Nichikan Gohonzon is the self described SGI banner of propagation. There are many more beautiful Nichiren Gohonzon that are the banners of propagation of the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren. Although the appearance of the various Gohonzon are similar, the nature of the Nichikan Gohonzon deviates from the others. I would return or respectfully burn [while chanting the Daimoku and the Jiga-ge] the Nichikan Gohonzon and I will send you a more beautiful and beneficent Gohonzon, either framed or mounted on a scroll. I will send you a framed Gohonzon for free or you may send me a blank scroll to mount the Gohonzon from BlankWallscrolls.com, or I will send you a high resolution image of the Nichiren Gohonzon, The Gohonzon for the Transmission of the Dharma, and you may yourself frame or mount it.

[fraughtwithperil.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2010 01:28AM by Nichijew.

Some seem to have a definite agenda on this forum, but I thought this was about former SGI/cult members or people that have not left SGI yet helping each other through the experience as they distance themselves. Some seem to think this is an opportunity to convert others to their type of Buddhism which is probably just another cult anyway.

To take advice from someone in a different sort of cult that tells you to burn your Gohonzon and get one of theirs would only be sign of still not using our own brain. Nichikan was a reformer and we need to have that sort of courage now that SGI is totally off course. We don't need an organization or a specific Gohonzon to be a Nichiren Buddhist anyway.

@v3rsus You wrote, "The more I talk, the more things come back to me about shit SGI folks told ME about MY LIFE. And I just went on, letting 'em do it! I sucked it all in like some kind of psycho-sponge for such a long time." This is something that came to bother me as l learned more and more about "advice" or "guidance" given to members. How in the hell do other members KNOW anything about why people go through certain things? I don't even give Nichiren that credit. Anyone who presumed to tell you anything about your problems or challenges is not qualified. Paid professionals are barely capable of doing that credibly. I don't believe that all members or leaders would necessarily offer their unwelcome insights but I know some who would. It's probably human nature. I have this feeling that if and when something unpleasant or unfortunate happens to me, the leaders will think I brought this on by leaving the organization and by posting on this forum. However, I watched hardcore members get terminal illness and die, become homeless, have accidents, get laid off etc. I already know that bad stuff happens to everyone, even those who chant. No one is exempt from problems. Even Ikeda lost a child a while ago. So by all means keep that Gohonzon and continue practicing if that's what you want to do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2010 03:47AM by doubtful.

To whom it may concern:

The purpose of this forum is not to convert anyone or preach about any religion, which is against the rules.

At times members of this message board may make distinctions regarding the mainstream beliefs of a particular religion (e.g. Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism) to better form the contrast between that religion and cult-like splinter group.

Other than this there should be no proselytizing here.

@v3sus,

I am very sorry to hear of the loss of your child, the statements of your so called "leader" must have only exacerbated the sorrow. I like your solution to the problem of leaving the gakkai, it sounds very good, if they do keep bothering you, do perhaps the solution someone posted of threatening legal action will help. One aspect of the "Gakkai" I always hated was where they tell EVERYONE your private business after you tell them things in confidence, shameful. As for your affiliation with Soka Crakkai, as my grandmother used to say : Good riddance to bad medicine.

PS: Keep your Gohonzon , hundreds of thousands of former SGI never returned theirs either.

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Morgaine
@v3sus,

I am very sorry to hear of the loss of your child, the statements of your so called "leader" must have only exacerbated the sorrow. I like your solution to the problem of leaving the gakkai, it sounds very good, if they do keep bothering you, do perhaps the solution someone posted of threatening legal action will help. One aspect of the "Gakkai" I always hated was where they tell EVERYONE your private business after you tell them things in confidence, shameful. As for your affiliation with Soka Crakkai, as my grandmother used to say : Good riddance to bad medicine.

PS: Keep your Gohonzon , hundreds of thousands of former SGI never returned theirs either.

Hi All,

Not to sound overly cynical, nor to be nasty either, but as a previously-long-time member I wonder just exactly what standing SGI has to issue their own gohonzons, and what is the difference between them doing such a thing and you or I simply running a gohonzon through the copier? Is it just because they say so? Seems to me that if people believe it then it is so, and vise versa.

You can now go out on the Internet and find images of all sorts of gohonzons. Pick one and away you go. When there was a temple involved which claimed some sort of lineage to Nichiren there was perhaps a justification, but Ikea deciding to start up his own gohonzon-amway scam I think goes way beyond the pale. Sadly, I'm afraid many people have become so conditioned to having all of the "utensils" before they can feel they have appropriately worshiped (big brown box, lots of brass do-dads, pictures of high muckety-mucks, shikimi, etc. etc.) that they are "hooked".

Don't get me wrong, I have a great deal of respect and reverence for what the DaiShonin left to all the lay believers, I'm just disappointed and slightly amazed that folks continue to buy into it given the many contradictions that have been created by their dogmatic machinations. As a matter of fact, what is to stop someone from writing the daimoku on a piece of notebook paper and hanging it on the wall? I recall reading a gosho in which Nichiren says something to the effect that before the latter day of the law, one could obtain equal benefits by picturing the great secret law in their heart and worshipping it. Based on the silliness going on with SGI, one could make the case that the big "LATTER DAY OF THE LAW" clock had been set back several hours by the shenanigans of SGI uppers.

Wakatta



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2010 08:19AM by wakatta1.

@Wakatta,


I agree the SGI does not have a monopoly on the Gohonzon, my reply to V3sus was simply to agree with the conclusion she came up with for her own life and offer support. The larger contextual issue of the authenticity of the Gohonzon and who should issue it is a whole nother can of worms, which could take us down many different roads, i.e. consecration of Gohonzon, authenticity of Nichiren Shoshu versus Soka Gakkai , and Nichiren Shu etc... I will leave that to those more learned than I and perhaps a different forum based on the chastisement from the moderator.

Quote

@Wakatta,


I agree the SGI does not have a monopoly on the Gohonzon, my reply to V3sus was simply to agree with the conclusion she came up with for her own life and offer support. The larger contextual issue of the authenticity of the Gohonzon and who should issue it is a whole nother can of worms, which could take us down many different roads, i.e. consecration of Gohonzon, authenticity of Nichiren Shoshu versus Soka Gakkai , and Nichiren Shu etc... I will leave that to those more learned than I and perhaps a different forum based on the chastisement from the moderator.

Agreed - I was just trying to "beg the question" in order to trigger thought. To me it is either (1) Adapt to the contrived changes in any way possible to continue on with the practice as if nothing was happening, or (2) decide that the swimming pool had become a cesspool and recognize that justifications from within it are just tainted.

Wakatta

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doubtful
@v3rsus You wrote, "The more I talk, the more things come back to me about shit SGI folks told ME about MY LIFE. And I just went on, letting 'em do it! I sucked it all in like some kind of psycho-sponge for such a long time."

This is something that came to bother me as l learned more and more about "advice" or "guidance" given to members. How in the hell do other members KNOW anything about why people go through certain things? I don't even give Nichiren that credit. Anyone who presumed to tell you anything about your problems or challenges is not qualified. Paid professionals are barely capable of doing that credibly.

I have this feeling that if and when something unpleasant or unfortunate happens to me, the leaders will think I brought this on by leaving the organization and by posting on this forum. However, I watched hardcore members get terminal illness and die, become homeless, have accidents, get laid off etc. I already know that bad stuff happens to everyone, even those who chant. No one is exempt from problems. Even Ikeda lost a child a while ago. .

I got into this mindset too, thinking, "If I have a problem, it's because I haven't been chanting enough/serving SGI enough. If I stop practicing, or criticize SGI, that will cause bad things to happen to me." Leaders promote this very fear-based mentality, endlessly, causing much anxiety, guilt and pain to their members. Well, let's look at what has happened to some devout practitioners.

1. Tsunesaburo Makiguchi, founder of SGI: Imprisoned by the Japanese government; suffered brutal treatment and harsh conditions in Sugamo Prison; died in prison.

2. Josei Toda, second president of SGI: also suffered in Sugamo Prison. Released, built the Soka Gakkai from almost nothing to 750, 000 households. Referred to the Gohonzon as a "happiness machine," told followers that they could chant for health and prosperity. Despite this, died at the age of 58 due to chronic health problems.

3. Daisaku Ikeda, third president of SGI: lost his first son due to a bleeding ulcer.

4. David and Patricia Kasahara, SGI leaders in New York: lost their son in an accident.

5. David Aoyama: SGI leader; died in a plane crash, September 11.

6. Mitoko Miller: SGI Women's Division leader; lost husband on 9/11; he was in one of the Twin Towers.

7. Ronnie Smith, SGI Men's Division leader; died of cancer.

8. Our chapter's first leader: died of cancer, despite all the chapter's chanting for him.

9. Local women's division leader: Disabled in an automobile accident, died after months of suffering in a nursing home.

Reality is: If you're human, you are vulnerable! As you go through life, you WILL lose loved ones, and things that you value. At some point, you WILL get sick and die. You will NOT achieve and get everything that you want...and when you do get what you want, it doesn't necessarily make you as happy as you thought it would. It's the first of the four noble truths: "Life is suffering." No matter who you are and what you practice. SGI is destructive and hurtful when it tries to tell members that they can be exempt from this truth -- if they just chant more and give more money to SGI! Inevitably you find out -- it's not true, and that adds another layer of hurt onto what you already had.