FOR – SURE – SGI needs to justify their existence (Ikeda the great Buddha to us all) - Just in the month of August - pledges (loyalty oaths to their MASTER Ikeda) required to be signed by the MD and then there the RTE a youth informed me that there will be another event like this one in October (ENOUGH ALREADY) – and the embellishment of Ikeda – THE new pillars of Buddhism Shakyamuni – Nichiren – Ikeda have heard this twice already @ meetings from Sr. Leaders as well as having members talking about this comparison ! Ikeda Gohonzon I think they are all ready in stockrooms ready to sell to all the loyal Ikeda disciples (of course @ a marked up price $$$ got to keep those coffers filled with the monies from the loyal disciples – I can see a big push telling members that the Ikeda Gohonzon will bring them much benefit: ( Off the record A Sr. Leader last year floated this NEW IKEDA Gohonzon concept saying that it was only fitting that after all Ikeda has accomplished so much in his life time to have him on the Gohonzon. Of course since then I have not been privy to much insider information – but I do catch information from time to time – from a little birdie : ) the ranks of the mighty SGI isn’t all Ikedabots – some are still somewhat free thinkers – but they don’t play their hand I think they might be laying in wait until the chosen one has departed but this is just my take on it.
Want to start a ruckus @ a meeting just call IKEDA MASTER instead of mentor and you will get lots of chatter correcting your misspoken word it works ever time - THEY hate it when you call IKEDA what he really is their MASTER !!!!

@cyclops, I wrote before that it's probably not a horrible idea for Ikeda to be depicted on the Gohonzon. Others like T'ien-tai and Dengyo are represented on it already. They are not regarded as deities. We don't chant to them when we face the Gohonzon. As long as NMRK remains down the center, it does not matter if Ikeda or any future leaders end up on the Gohonzon. Truthfully, Ikeda has had the charisma or ? to directly and indirectly introduce this practice to more people than anyone I am aware of. When I first heard he might end up on it, I was grossed out. Then I realized that he HAS been important in propagating Nichiren Buddhism, albeit a hybrid version. However, if SGI starts suggesting anyone invoke him in any way then that's another matter. I know SGI has the three Gakkai presidents as the 3 pillars. I hope they don't equate Ikeda with Shakyamuni or Nichiren because then I would return my current Gohonzon and never acknowledge being part of the SGI, but that won't matter to anyone.

The real danger in putting images of Gurus on these types of "altars" is that when people chant/pray in front of them everyday, the image of the Guru gets deeply anchored into their psyche.
Many sects do this, putting images of the Guru on the altar, where people pray.

Sai Baba would use life-size images of him at satsang meetings worldwide.

Of course, this is deliberate, to engineer the Guru-Installation deeply into the mind of the followers. The best way to do that, is by using multi-media and daily repetition over months and years.
Once the Guru gets installed deeply into the psyche, its very hard to get out, and can be there for L-I-F-E.
Again, that is deliberate, to try and hook people into the personality of the Guru for life.

SGI in my area already had pictures of Ikeda on the alter, you know the fan dance image. Also some of the members had very large prints of Ikeda and his wife. I found this weird but to Ikeda and The warped SGI, it helps imprint them in peoples head.

Doubtful i disagree, Ikeda should never be on the Gohonzon, though he will be, when his own Gohonzon is brought into the Gakkai.
Another point i can't agree on is that Ikeda has introduced this Buddhism to the masses, he didn't, it was regular people like all on here that introduced it to people, and Ikeda takes the glory!

Also we keep getting told about this charisma that Ikeda has, we never see it, but are constantly told about it!

Can anyone tell me what he has actually done!!! Other than bark and bite, to get others, to get what he wants!

Hi Guys,

I am a new poster to this forum - although I have been lurking in the shadows and have been following since about page 15. I am sure there are some more people like that. I don't want to hijack the latest discussion but I thought I would add something to the earlier discussions regarding the SGI charter school.

There is in fact already a charter school founded and still operated -following the spirit- of the SGI. It is called the Rennaisance Charter School located in [...] Jackson Heights.Their website is renaissancecharter.org. Although not explained on their website, it was founded by a certain Dr. Montee Joffee in the 1990s. It was only recently that he stepped down as detailed in the article "Practical Implementation of "Soka" Education: A Dialogue with Monte Joffee" URL: [www.eric.ed.gov]. You can read the abstract on that page. I have the full article but I can't share it because I has identifying information on who downloaded it (me) and where. One striking fact here is that their website doesn't mention anything about the SGI, Makiguchi, or Ikeda anywhere! There is no mention of Soka Education - not even in the Educational Philosophy Section. Do parents even know the inner motivations of their children's school?

Excerpt from About Us > Mission
Renaissance is based on the conviction that a change in the destiny of a single individual can lead to a change in the destiny of a community, nation, and ultimately humankind. Its mission as a K-12 school is to foster educated, responsible, humanistic young leaders who will through their own personal growth spark a renaissance in New York. Its graduates will be global citizens with an abiding respect for peace, human rights, the environment, and sustainable development.
...
Renaissance is committed to graduating competent individuals who are powerful thinkers, engaged citizens, and life-long learners who will create the renaissance of New York.

This is a little out of topic but 253 honorary degrees? I know that in at least some of the countries I am intimately familiar with - MOST OF THE UNIVERSITIES HE GOT HONORARY DEGREES FROM WERE NOT EVEN PRESTIGIOUS. A lot of these universities are no-name universities that were probably enticed by generous gifts or cash infusions. The SGI does not do much of anything practical for so-called "World Peace". How would these mostly obscure universities even know who this man is? There is just so much BS.

[Moderator Note: Please don't post addresses and phone numbers here. Read the rules]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2010 06:51AM by rrmoderator.

Welcome Mashkadov, You are right. With very few exceptions the institutions awarding these honorary doctorates are obscure, probably poor, and easily enticed. I have no doubt that the only reason they know about Ikeda is because an SGI member or SGI officially has approached the school and started the paperwork(and probably the check, oops, I mean the contribution). In my city I know of one member who has been actively trying to get a local university "interested" in Ikeda. He is not on the SGI payroll, yet is determined to make the university acknowledge Ikeda. Many here have posted that this is precisely how SGI succeeds. It gets volunteers to do a lot of important tasks because the members often believe that these activities will bring them benefit. Less worldly members think they are creating a new history and want to feel that they contributed to bringing Ikeda to the world's attention. See, when those charter schools drop the mask and Ikeda's picture goes up in the hallways and on the school's website, the members can feel that they helped make that possible. Thank you so much for telling us about the Renaissance Charter School in New York. There is something creepy about SGI creating these schools and being extra careful to never mention Ikeda, Buddhism, or the Gakkai. What are they worried about, that people will think these schools are connected to a cult? It's funny, SGI cannot stop mentioning, showing, or crediting Ikeda in its publications, meetings, and leaders' speeches. But when they undertake something huge like starting a new school, they never refer to him. Why? Again, why are these schools here and not in some struggling nation where high caliber schools with state-of-the-art resources would be the envy of the community?
@Anticult I understand that there could be some dangerous subliminal effect to having Ikeda on the Gohonzon, but most of us do not read classical Chinese calligraphy. Even the Japanese members say that they can barely understand what's written on the Gohonzon. I know I only look down the center of the Gohonzon anyway. @The Void I am guilty as charged. I have an image of Ikeda with the fan near my altar. I simply like the picture. It was given to us MD as a parting gift at FNCC. I don't keep it out because I believe he's with me in the room or in my practice or any nonsense like that. It's just a nice pic and a reminder of a nice weekend. I know you and some others resist crediting Ikeda with introducing members. Perhaps you are right. We will have to agree to disagree. The charisma that he has displayed in many videos (not the recent ones) was obvious to me. Danny Nagashima has it too. I cannot deny that Ikeda is special in some way that maybe I cannot comprehend. If he were not, then why do so many members love him? Why did the majority of members stick with him/the Gakkai instead of the temple? There is something there. You all know that I am definitely not an SGI apologist. What I am is an ex-SGI member who still practices to the Gohonzon consistently and one who does want to be fair in acknowledging SGI's flaws and strengths.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2010 08:53AM by doubtful.

Doubtful,
We just need to figure out a way to do the basic Nichiren Buddhist practice of - faith, practice & study without interference from the SGI shenningans. REally, it is absurd what activities they do that have nothing to do with a Buddhist practice. The longer I sit back and watch, the more I want to laugh. But people like you and I and many others that enjoy the basic practice are at a loss of how to proceed. Just practicing alone is not the spirit of this Buddhism at all. We can run a district without the SGI, but when someone new wants a Gohonzon, we don't feel comfortable connecting them to the SGI anymore. It's a little embarrassing. The last person I brought to our center for KRG liked some of it, but when they pulled down the screen for the required video, my friend felt it was cultish. My eyes began to open as I have a lot of respect for this person. Anyway, wouldn't it be nice if we could figure out a way to have our own meetings via teleconference until each area can grow a good size district of a new organization = Basic Nichiren Buddhism. Come together to chant, study and learn, but our connection is strictly to the Law and we are all equals just like Nichiren said.

I had seen the 3 presidents of Soka Gakkai trifold card placed prominently in line with the Gohonzon on several altars. I never warmed up to Ikeda even though I generally feel susceptible to some charismatic types, and the charisma of some 'common people' types. I finally accepted Ikeda as 'real' and having some humor when, back in the day, I saw the 'table pounding' video of Ikeda at a meeting that some thread posters thought was rather silly of the man. It broke the tension for me in some way, but didn't pull me into discipleship. I never wanted a picture of him in my living space.

doubtful]@The Void I am guilty as charged. I have an image of Ikeda with the fan near my altar. I simply like the picture. It was given to us MD as a parting gift at FNCC. I don't keep it out because I believe he's with me in the room or in my practice or any nonsense like that. It's just a nice pic and a reminder of a nice weekend.

Please don't see it as a gift, it is a tool, for brainwashing. When i was with SGI, I was given 'A youthful Diary' by one of the members, as they knew at no point was i going to 'open my heart to Ikeda Sensei', I can't believe i actually read the thing, Self Aggrandizement and blind loyalty to his mentor Toda. And he wants all of Soka but probably the world, to feel the same about him. But he is now demanding it! I really hope you can see that, 'I just like the picture' is no excuse, you are still keeping this guy in mind. Or maybe i am massively paranoid

Mentor and Disciple 'The Documentary'

'I know you and some others resist crediting Ikeda with introducing members. Perhaps you are right. We will have to agree to disagree.
The charisma that he has displayed in many videos (not the recent ones) was obvious to me. Danny Nagashima has it too. I cannot deny that Ikeda is special in some way that maybe I cannot comprehend.'

Arrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh no he is not, he is a Billionaire, manipulator.

If he were not, then why do so many members love him?

Arrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhh, it's obvious why. "hey Sensei's so great, since i deepened my faith and took Ikeda into my Heart, I have made real progress(non descriptive progress of what they have done), I can feel the change in myself, etc etc.........'
you go to meetings, and you hear most of the people claiming this. People who are at meetings would never show weaknesses (frowned upon in Gakkai) so they put on a show of a positive facade, "how can you win at life, if you are defeated by this weakness. 'It's Sanso Shima' playing games with you, doesn't that prove this is True Buddhism and that Sensei is the only person in the whole world sharing this Buddhism, Sensei's so great etc etc............"
Also the amount of crying that used to go on at meetings, in relation to how Sensei's had helped them, 'I prayed to Sensei', was becoming prevalent, some of the members think he can hear their prayers and wishes.
People were encouraged to write to Sensei about "how i was struggling to make a Break Through in my practice, so i wrote to Sensei" these people who got replies never seemed to be regular members, but area and district leaders or the National leaders, they would "never believe that he would write back, because he must get so much mail, but to my surprise, Delight (insert variation on how f**king pleased you were, but the more over the top and emotional the better), he did, I welled up and tears flowed from my eyes at this joyous occasion. It said 'STAND UP'. I thought wow I can't believe it, the answer is so simple, I must stand up as a disciple of Sensei and tell the world about how this Buddhism can change you life, thank you Sensei' tears now dripping from the eyes again.

Why did the majority of members stick with him/the Gakkai instead of the temple? There is something there.

I wasn't there at that time, but from what i know of it, I would hazard to suggest. That the amazingly rich SGI PR machine and the zeal of members who were encouraged to trust in Sensei and not the Temples. Tell them enough times, get them to chant about the Evil Priests, If there are enough people, telling you they are right, then god damn it, they must be(in their own heads). Also who out of those before the Split spent a lot of time at a Temple, or did they spend it in homes and community centre type places?

At bigger meetings there were always people photographers who would get everyone together for a big old photo. "Oh that will have to be sent to Sensei, we are doing this for Sensei, if it wasn't for Sensei ad infinitum........."
Helping create the Soka family, lovey dovey Soka family always there for you, hey want to have a talk "what about", SGI, isn't it great, SGI is my life, I am SGI" I mean hey wow unbelievable, I mean whatever that really means, it sounds pretty damn obsessive.


You all know that I am definitely not an SGI apologist.
What I am is an ex-SGI member who still practices to the Gohonzon consistently and one who does want to be fair in acknowledging SGI's flaws and strengths.

Your mind is your own matter, in how you decide to acknowledge SGI pros and 'CONS'
But i truly think it is just a Professional Con, and we have been had!

For Sure – SPOT ON - You are correct when the split occurred – there was a huge PR campaign telling everyone that the Temple had EVIL priest that wanted total control over the members and that IKEDA resisted these EVIL one’s - and we were not to talk to the temple because we might be seduced by the dark side of the Temple influence – so we went on as I recall a few wanted dialog because some of the members went with the Temple but the SGI wouldn’t hear of it! Then some more propaganda – that members that went with the Temple were having bad karma for going with the Temple – BUT the one’s that chosen SGI and IKEDA had chosen wisely ; ) - My take on this was just a power play between two egotistical - power hungry – individuals – I think most here that were around back in the day would agree that IKEDA was a little held back before the split – however after the split – he had total control unbridle authority and he didn’t mind using it ; ( Then as we are all aware came the hero worship – and the idolization – IKEDA mentor to all. Indoctrination of members and specially the YD to accept him as a demigod ; ) VERY maniacal – and if I was introduced in the IKEDA years I would without hesitation called it a personality cult and walk out the door! Fortunately I was introduced long before the dark times that we find ourselves in – POWER and MONEY tells the tale – BILLIONS aren’t enough – and it looks like he going for the title of Buddha – it’s logical SGI will enshrine and the IKEDABOTS will pay homage and the COFFERS will keep swelling $$$$$