@ DrJesusEsq

I am out of SGI since 2005 - so I am not really that up to date. But RTE does not seem to happen here. Having said that such mass events do not go well with most Europeans anyway has something fascist about it. The do hold Youth fetsivals (facsist in my books).
I guess SGI-USA is a sort of test tube at the moment.

Yeah I think the same as Rothaus. I'm not aware of anything like this going on in the UK at the moment. Its not really 'the done thing', big events and conventions like that just don't sit well with a lot of British people.

And I didn't mean 'sensitive' in a derogatory way at all, its in a positive way.

Quote
DavidM

Quote
writeforchange
@doubtful
I have read so much Nicheren theology that I am no longer clear about some of it. I read and read and then got to the point that I felt some of it was so absurb that it no longer mattered.

Hi WFC, SGI will never tell you but there are a number of Gosho letters which many Nichiren sects consider to be forgeries. Most of them deal with what you spoke about, Nichiren 'proclaiming himself to be this or that', extreme views and the daigohonzon.

Nichiren Shoshu took them as genuine which led their theology to be very... demanding. So SGI inherited the same 'difficult' ideologies. Difficult because to say those letters are authentic puts the message at odds with the definitely authentic earlier writings of Nichiren.

Nichijew can speak about this in much more detail, theres also of info on them on the web. :)

Dear DavidM:

I had to smile. The Nichiren Shoshu not only took the disputed texts as authentic, they were the very ones [for the most most part] who authored them. The SGI is the crooked shadow of the crooked tree of Taisekaji or SGI is the offspring of a snake, even deadier than itself.

Nichijew

Quote
DavidM
Welcome to everyone who has posted their thoughts on this forum in the last few days!

Loads of excellent points and questions raised by everyone. Its unusual to see so many new people visit this forum in such a short space of time.
Does anyone think this has been sparked by the excruciating ramp up in pressure regarding Rock The Era that's been reported recently?

I'm in two minds on what to think of it. On one hand, it could be a mistake by SGI, they applied too much pressure on people to give up their time, money and personal life in the name of 'Rock The Era'. This has tipped people over the edge who have had issues with SGI for a while and has been a big shock to people relatively new to SGI.

On the other hand...

Quite a few people (including myself) have said they feel SGI is executing its final plan to push out the thoughtful, curious, sensitive people from its ranks. While simultaneously thought reforming those remaining in SGI to an even deeper level. 'Rock The Era' looks like the perfect veil to carry out this plan.

It appears most people leaving SGI (or at least, people visiting this forum) are 'older' (no offense intended :) ) or have been in SGI for quite a long time. Unfortunately for SGI these people have been exposed to actual Buddhist study (wither that was in 'old school' SGI or from earlier in life) and they are just not buying mentor/disciple, Ikeda worship and 'chanting is magical'. SGI knows that these people are not only of little use to it but could also cause problems and instigate more people to leave.

So they stage a massive event which any non-fully-devoted Ikeda follower, hard line SGI defender would be very uncomfortable being involved in.

SGI hopes the thoughtful, inquisitive members will just leave quietly in the face of such a grotesque un-Buddhist activity. While those who stay and play a part in it will be all the more devoted to SGI.

Dear DavidM:

Excellent points. Hopefully one day some brave leader will come forth to confirm your hypothesis. If true that it was a willful strategy [to both purify the ranks and gain new converts], what a nefariously brilliant plan it is. They are a formidable enemy of the dharma but I still maintain that, like the Catholic church, their best days are behind them.

Nichijew

Don't worry, I am not offended. If there is anyone who should use the word sensitive in a derogatory way, s/he would be an SGI leader!

Perhaps they are trying to see if the US would be good for big conventions. Obviously that was what they did in Japan, South Korea, and really did a huge thing in Brazil.

Who knows? You could be right that SGI is trying to purify its ranks, get less thinking people in their organization. As of now, I do have my friends talking to me about RTE constantly. I was back there a few weeks ago, and some woman who I hardly knew almost went psycho on me when I told her I was thinking about going (I didn't want to be rude and say no).

Maybe things will calm down once RTE is done.

Dear DrJesusEsq:

The 1975 Hawaiian convention was huge. They built a floating stage for hundreds if not a thousand performers. In 1976, the New York Convention was attended by, at least, fifty thousand SGI and the SGI Bicentennial July 4th parade was the most attended parade in the history of New York City with something like 1.4 million people viewing it on the streets. RTE is small potatoes compared to these "movements". Italy too has had some huge festivals, one in Milan with nearly 30,000 SGI youth. I think, once, SGI nearly filled Yankee Stadium but so did Moon.

Nichijew

Quote
Nichijew
Dear DrJesusEsq:

The 1975 Hawaiian convention was huge. They built a floating stage for hundreds if not a thousand performers. In 1976, the New York Convention was attended by, at least, fifty thousand SGI and the SGI Bicentennial July 4th parade was the most attended parade in the history of New York City with something like 1.4 million people viewing it on the streets. RTE is small potatoes compared to these "movements". Italy too has had some huge festivals, one in Milan with nearly 30,000 SGI youth. I think, once, SGI nearly filled Yankee Stadium but so did Moon.

Nichijew

I was at a big convention in New York in 1986 that was on the same kind of scale that's being described here. Was there also one in 1976?

The '86 convention brought us such pukey "hits" as "Where are you going to be 200 years from now..." and "When Liberty Smiled". I still cringe when I think of those "songs" being "sung". And they were drowned out by the "A-A-O's" led by "rijicho" Williams. "How about that?" (as he liked to say)....

Something that horrifies me is the Elementary School Division experiences in the World Tribune.

It just seems creepy to me now, especially after reading many, many pages of this thread.
How odd to have your kid chanting to get a new Playstation or video games (etc...)

The experiences in the WT are also bizarre sounding to me now that I understand what the SGI is all about.
The Mentor/Disciple thing is so totally over the top...I remember thinking when I first joined that it was a little strange.
Now it just frightens me! The SGI practices total mind control. I am so glad I recognized this before veering a little too far into the organization.

It's almost as if the truth is stranger than fiction when it comes down to everything that is the SGI.
What still blows me away is how much money it's all worth.

I have always feared organized religion and I honestly thought in the beginning that the SGI was going to be so much different for me.
Now that I look back, they put so much pressure on me to join right away that I should have been a lot more cautious.

However, my life was in deep despair at the time and I caved easily. Also, the chanting did relieve a large part of the emotional turmoil
I was feeling at the time. I want to enjoy chanting, but I feel like I need to deprogram some of things I learned in the SGI before I can honestly
chant.

I suppose I will continue seeking as I have done for many years.
I believe in the message of Buddhism and will be looking for other avenues.

Thanks to all of you here who shared your messages. I feel like you have saved me some serious future agony. I also feel like I'm getting closer to my spiritual path as well since I found this forum and have decided to leave the SGI. The past year of my life has been full of profound realizations, and going through this whole thing with the SGI has been another huge healing step in my life. It was sort of a whirlwind experience compared to a lot of you who were in for years, but it was very intense and personal for me. I'm so glad we can share our experiences here.

Dear Overthetop:

My heart goes out to you. Because the Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra is so wonderful, it was inconceivable to me how anyone, let alone an entire organization that chants the title of the Lotus Sutra, could be so evil. For more than fifteen years I wrestled with this question and it still crosses my mind from time to time. You can find the answer to this most important question in the Lotus Sutra itself and the writings of Nichiren Daishonin. Nichiren teaches not to discard gold just because the bag it's in is dirty. Find another bag in which to place your gold or wear it around your neck where Nichiren placed it:

“For those who do not understand ‘one thought is three thousand [realms]‘ the Buddha gives rise to Great Compassion, wrapping this jewel within the Five Characters, and has [him]* to hang it around the necks of the young children of the Latter Age.” (Kanjin honzon sho, STN, v. 1, 720).”

*Nichiren

Mark:

@overthetop

You know, your post reminds the importance of gratitude in the healing process.

Let me explain.

In the year 2005 I got my gohonzon and it was the greatest thing ever for me. I loved chanting and I loved everything SGI. You never even had to cajole me to wake up early in the morning to do gongyo.

The honeymoon lasted until I met some soka members in China. There is one woman who is a "de-facto" leader there and was quite rude and obnoxious toward me. I was very tempted to rip the gohonzon out of my butsudan and burn it. That was how angry I felt.

I didn't burn it, but I did continue chanting and I did go back to the SGI in the states, while wondering in my mind what was going on when I lived in China.

However, this incident also shows me how well SGI "cares" for it members. For some time, I did allude to my bad experience in China only to be told by other members what I did wrong. You know just about as much as to what happened to me in China as the other members. Which is not much. However, the other members were quick to judge no matter how little they knew what happened.

I still did practice, while trying to reconcile with my bad experience.

One day after a meeting meant to build up RTE, I asked a young couple privately, "Why sing 'Forever Sensei'?" I then got talked down to like a little child about how great Ikeda is, how he (yes, we never met but Ikea apparently did this for me) gave me this practice, his numerous degrees and so on and so forth.

This is why I am grateful to those three people. If it hadn't been for the woman from China, I wouldn't have come to realize how "Buddhist" SGI is. I probably would have come to this forum just to tell you all that you are going to hell (or something like that).

If it hadn't been for the couple's condescending little talk, I would not have found this forum in the first place. In fact, when reading many of the experiences and stories here, I am still surprised how similar they all are.

I find it very scary.