@DavidM

"I have been reading this thread for about the last 4 hours and it has made me sick to my stomach and close to tears."
Personally speaking, I always feel a lot more clear minded after crying.

Im glad you have spent four hours reading this thread. However, whilst it might feel safer to focus on things US, these experiences are certainly not exclusive to the States. The worst extremes of SGI attitudes were, and still are most prevelant in Japan it seems. SGI is not quite so stupid to attempt acting so militantly elsewhere. I used to practise in the UK, the SGI here are no less insidious, they have just changed their approach to the level our culture will allow. Barely. Even knowing that SGI used to, or are elsewhere using underhand and cult tactics to affect peoples lives, should be enough for anyone with integrity to distance themselves from such an organisation. Otherwise, I find it akin to locking oneself in a room with ones fingers in their ears whilst humming loudly, trying not to hear whats going on outside. It should be obvious that everyone here seems to have already attempted to "be the change you wish to see", and this approach has not worked. Therefore, this is why the thread is titled Former Cult Members and Affected Families.

You could well be Robert Samuels. No offense intended, but your post certainly smacks of an "official, by the book, response". Of course, any and all are more than welcome to post here. But its not a forum for support of SGI, and that should be blatantly obvious, with all due respect. I think you could better serve the voices here on this thread, by accepting and understanding them. If you wish to remain in a group that is unable, unwilling, and not even interested in reform, that is your desicion to do so. If you are happy in such a community, that is likewise your perrogative, but if you fly with the crows...

I agree with the other responses, I dont particularly welcome your pity, however. I dont see how pity is befitting to people's experiences here, the word sounds a little inappropriate and somewhat insensitive to the people that have suffered within SGI. They did not suffer at random, though. The experiences related here bear common themes, and are a result of the SGI mindset and structure. Just because you "are not aware" of similar events in SGI-UK, by no means does it mean they do not occur. A "pitying and sympathetic" post is not going to make all these events not exist. There are many more people who do not know where to turn, have no-one to speak to, regarding the discomfort and subtle mind control SGI exerts. Being in an SGI community is by its very nature a pressured way of life. These are my conclusions, and I am not alone. I am very glad to have followed all the "supportive steps and guidance" you have provided, in the past myself, and it had about as much effect as trying to slice a pool of water. Today I return, finally, once and for all my Gohonzon, to SGI-UK. I am so very glad to be rid of SGI's presence in my life - these strong emotions have come about after going through mental torture trying to consolidate my consciense with the nonesense I put up with as a member. I am glad to say my consciense, not SGI's alleged "value creating society", are what has endured, and is once again guiding my life instead of the Soka Spirit. Cult is not a dirty word. Christianity began as a minority cult. I too had many concerns about the cult of SGI, yet I found I could not live between the two worlds - my sense of right and wrong, and what SGI was doing to me. The two were incompatable.

Having spent 4 hours reading this thread (what made you seek it out in the first place?), such a response should not suprise you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2010 07:52PM by wayfarerfree.

@DavidM

If you are happy in SGI, why seek such a forum? I find this the most suspicious part of your post, to be honest
Each nation has its own culture, so obviously, The Cult must adapt to each of them. SGI is just as bad in the UK as it is in other nations. If you took the Cult elements out of SGI, it would cease to be SGI. It might well collapse (personally speaking, I dont care either way, I just want them far, far away from MY life. But thats just me...).

One final note, I do not think SGI practises Buddhism.
I find that premise quite laughable.
Whatever its roots were, it operates as a cult of personality now.
Trying to refuse Ikeda as your "sensei" will be unacceptable, and will only get you ... "sympathy and pity" from other members.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2010 08:21PM by wayfarerfree.

Quote
wayfarerfree
@DavidM

"I have been reading this thread for about the last 4 hours and it has made me sick to my stomach and close to tears."
Personally speaking, I always feel a lot more clear minded after crying.

Im glad you have spent four hours reading this thread. However, whilst it might feel safer to focus on things US, these experiences are certainly not exclusive to the States. The worst extremes of SGI attitudes were, and still are most prevelant in Japan it seems. SGI is not quite so stupid to attempt acting so militantly elsewhere. I used to practise in the UK, the SGI here are no less insidious, they have just changed their approach to the level our culture will allow. Barely. Even knowing that SGI used to, or are elsewhere using underhand and cult tactics to affect peoples lives, should be enough for anyone with integrity to distance themselves from such an organisation. Otherwise, I find it akin to locking oneself in a room with ones fingers in their ears whilst humming loudly, trying not to hear whats going on outside. It should be obvious that everyone here seems to have already attempted to "be the change you wish to see", and this approach has not worked. Therefore, this is why the thread is titled Former Cult Members and Affected Families.

You could well be Robert Samuels. No offense intended, but your post certainly smacks of an "official, by the book, response". Of course, any and all are more than welcome to post here. But its not a forum for support of SGI, and that should be blatantly obvious, with all due respect. I think you could better serve the voices here on this thread, by accepting and understanding them. If you wish to remain in a group that is unable, unwilling, and not even interested in reform, that is your desicion to do so. If you are happy in such a community, that is likewise your perrogative, but if you fly with the crows...

I agree with the other responses, I dont particularly welcome your pity, however. I dont see how pity is befitting to people's experiences here, the word sounds a little inappropriate and somewhat insensitive to the people that have suffered within SGI. They did not suffer at random, though. The experiences related here bear common themes, and are a result of the SGI mindset and structure. Just because you "are not aware" of similar events in SGI-UK, by no means does it mean they do not occur. A "pitying and sympathetic" post is not going to make all these events not exist. There are many more people who do not know where to turn, have no-one to speak to, regarding the discomfort and subtle mind control SGI exerts. Being in an SGI community is by its very nature a pressured way of life. These are my conclusions, and I am not alone. I am very glad to have followed all the "supportive steps and guidance" you have provided, in the past myself, and it had about as much effect as trying to slice a pool of water. Today I return, finally, once and for all my Gohonzon, to SGI-UK. I am so very glad to be rid of SGI's presence in my life - these strong emotions have come about after going through mental torture trying to consolidate my consciense with the nonesense I put up with as a member. I am glad to say my consciense, not SGI's alleged "value creating society", are what has endured, and is once again guiding my life instead of the Soka Spirit. Cult is not a dirty word. Christianity began as a minority cult. I too had many concerns about the cult of SGI, yet I found I could not live between the two worlds - my sense of right and wrong, and what SGI was doing to me. The two were incompatable.

Having spent 4 hours reading this thread (what made you seek it out in the first place?), such a response should not suprise you.

Beautiful post wayfarerfree. It will serve the people who happen on this thread for generations to come. You are more Buddhist than every last SGI leader in the history of their wretched organization. I salute you and wish you the very best in this life and those to come.

Nichijew

@Nichijew

Many thanks. But due to SGI, I have little trust of Buddhism now, if their examples are anything to go by.
Gakkai folkk just cant stand it when someone, or several "someones" dont have the same opinion as they do, especially ex-members.
Bite me.
Deal with it.
I'm an ex-member for thousands of reasons.
This does not make me "lost",
"deluded"
"slanderous" (in the real sense of the word, not the controlling context SGI uses it in).

In fact, I feel more closely connected with MY OWN spirituality now, than when I was practising.
Its a journey, the path and direction of which as individuals, we are free to decide.
I am put off by any religion that asserts its own message is the one true message.
Surely the fact that so many different "messages" or paths exist, is proof that the spiritual journey can and is one with many different places to visit.
I would not like to "visit" SGI, ever again, and would take great detours to avoid it.

Quote
evergreen
Rothaus - quick question, what are the reassessment groups? I never heard of them before.
!

These were SGI members, both in Scotland and the United States, who were trying to "be the change you wish to see," in SGI. They were grassroots groups of members who wanted greater openness and democracy in SGI.

The Internal Reassessment Group, or IRG, in the United States, sent many memos to SGI leaders, and also had their own website, advocating reform of SGI.

SGI demonized and slandered these people. I mean, really! How outrageous of them to actually think that the organization should support the members, rather than the other way around! In the end, the IRG members were either forced, or chose to leave SGI, and SGI pretty much hushed the whole thing up. Many SGI members have never even heard of the IRG. SGI suppresses dissent. If members complain, they're labeled crazy, or troublemakers, rumors are spread about them, and leaders try to intimidate them. If the member still won't toe the line, he or she can be kicked out -- or driven out -- of SGI.

I'm sure that the senior leadership of SGI must HATE the internet -- people can keep records of SGI's maltreatment of members -- and inform others.

The Nichiren's Coffeehouse website has information on the IRG, in the USA, as does page 49 of this thread:

[forum.culteducation.com]

www.fraughtwithperil.com, the "Byrd's Eye View," Blog also has information on what can happen to an SGI member who writes a blog that doesn't please SGI. The author, Wendy Byrd Ehlmann, was treated very cruelly by so called leaders and friends in SGI. After her sudden death from a heart attack, certain members continued to spread vicious rumors about her. (That's also part of this thread.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2010 09:04PM by tsukimoto.

Pages 109-116 of this thread discuss Wendy Byrd Ehlmann and how SGI treated her -- both before and after her death.

Sushigrl (re. DavidM post)
"I always had the impression that SGI-UK was more subtle in its promotion of Ikeda and the "practice". But why would you feel it necessary to feel sympathy for the damage done and the wrongs of SGI Japan and USA?"

Quite true.
I know of people here in the UK that are too scared to cut ties with SGI, and who are having their fears taken advantage of by The Cult.
It is done in a very British way, but it is done nevertheless.
The UK is no exception to the rule.
Trying to paint SGI-UK as a liberal, modern movement - this is the image that is preferred, especially since SGI-UK, whilst having grown since its arrival here, is still eager to expand it numbers (of course, what else?) and hasnt currently had any dissenting public voices speaking out against it.
On the whole, the majority of folk who practise here in the UK are good people, but the organisation has its goals, and will still do anything it has to, to achieve them. Trying to portray dissatifaction (an extreme understatement) with SGI as purely a Japanese or American extreme reaction, exclusive to those countries, is attempting to detract from similar experiences by members here in the UK.

To be blunt, "DavidM", I think your presence here is a transparent effort to undermine a thread that offers an alternative to the public image SGI is insanely eager to advertise. This thread is getting bigger and bigger, so this is only to be expected, after all, only the just attract "persecution", dont they?
Trying to portray any attempt at censorship as vindication of your standpoint? Well, I have no way of knowing the truth of it. Why would your comment on censorship be uncensored? SGI never cease to amaze, and disgust me. They are the exact opposite of freedom, in my opinion. Please feel free to PM me, I will post your comments in their entirety to prove, or disprove, your claims of inequality.

I'm glad SGI-UK have noticed this thread (if, "DavidM" you are truly from the UK).
As I said, I am not alone in my conclusions, and as time goes by, I wont be the last person to come to them.
SGI's methods of preying on peoples good intentions will become less and less effective, the more people are exposed to them.
In fact, your responses have just served to solidify my feelings, and view that SGI has at its core a perverse nature and cause.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2010 09:50PM by wayfarerfree.

DavidM:

You don't have pre-approved status.

This means that your posts must be approved by moderator.

At times there may be a gap between when you post and when your posts are approved.

Nothing has been "censored."

DavidM:

You seem to be here as little more than an apologist for SGI.

Your posts are at best naive, but do seem to reflect denial.

That is, you are in denial about how SGI works and who runs it.

Ikeda is an absolute authority. If he did not want something to continue it would be stopped.

All the leadership know this and are essentially submissive and obedient.

SGI has a long history of bad press, complaints and serious problems.

Attempting to somehow place the blame for all this on individuals and local leaders doesn't change the facts.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Also see [www.toride.org]

Urging people to simply get on with their lives and be "happy" doesn't begin to address the inherent and systemic problems within SGI.

Hi, sorry I wasn't aware of the 'preapproval' process. I understand it is neccessary.

Just to say then I have had posts put up on page 127 and 128.

I also understand that this kind of discussion is not the purpose of this thread, so I am absolutely trying to stay way from causing any disruption.

I just want to say thank you to everyone for posting in a civil way. I understand I may be seen as 'the enemy', but I would not be here if I didn't want to inquire about things and try to make up my own mind. As I said I am not happy with some aspects of SGI.

So I guess I came here to learn.