Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
bobze39
()
Date: February 22, 2012 07:59AM
Quote
Nichijew
They are no different than the scientologists who give some of their former members, especially their outspoken members hell, wherever they find themselves.
Quote
simplify
I heard that the Scientologists keep a special office for Ron L Hubbard in all their centres, even though he is dead. Is this 'shrine' room common in cults? Is it for mind control purposes (eg reinforcing personality worship)?
Have you heard of Scientology Fair Game? If you haven't, you can just google Scientology Fair Game or read this article from Wikipedia:
[en.wikipedia.org])
Harrassing people is a game? And somehow it's fair?
Oops! I better don't talk about it, I don't want scientology to get on my case as well! Na, here is the beauty of it! You can't kill someone twice, you can't character assassinate someone twice. And I have already been character assassinated. (Just in case you are not familiar with the term character assassination you can read about it:
[en.wikipedia.org] )
So, I can talk about all the cults I want!
By the way, in one of the forums about Scientology Fair Game I read that cults cooperate between themselves when it comes to hunting down and harrassing rogue ex-members. Makes sense.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
rattyboy
()
Date: February 22, 2012 11:12AM
The Winter 2011 Buddhadharma magazine has an article titled "Why is American Buddhism so White?". I scanned it for mention of SGI. I can't recall all the specifics, but basically: The writer of the article mentions that Soka Gakkai is considered the most racially diverse Buddhist group in America but is not included in a well known book listing Buddhist groups in America.(The author includes the book title) "We should ask ourselves why" the writer writes. The article does not pursue this further, at least in my opinion. Perhaps they are suggesting racism in the exclusion but they're not asking about the quality of sokaG itself. Just putting it out there. Great new postings by the way! (also new Skeptical Enquirer with a cover on scientology with usual characteristics of cults listed but worth checking out for comparison. ..or is it Skeptic mag. I confuse them).
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
bobze39
()
Date: February 22, 2012 01:59PM
Hi, Rattyboy, well, I have to admit, I didn't notice any official racism in SGI, SGI equally uses and abuses all members regardless of race, age and religious beliefs. They don't dicriminate. Have to give it to them, they do achieve some great equality, they screw everybody. As soon as you can give your money and time to SGI, and shakubuku some fresh meat, they don't care what race you are.
Though unofficially, I did see some racist behaviour. One time, when I was helping to prepare the stage for a conference at 606 Wilshire blvd., Santa Monica, CA, SGI-USA headquarters, and I was putting some chairs on stage, I saw a woman, getting on stage and doing nazi salute, lots of people were present in the auditorium at the moment, and nobody said anything, in fact, some of her friends laughed, they thought it was funny. To my shame I didn't say anything either - another example of so called Bandwagon effect. Desire not to go agaist the herd. It's a well-known effect in psychology. It was also talked about in this thread. Even if individual realizes that something wrong is going on, he/she'd rather not say anything, if it contradicts majority. So, as I saw that nobody said anything, I didn't say anything either. That effect greatly helps SGI when it comes to bashing enemies - I remember sitting in LA friendship center in so called Soka Spirit meeting (basically a meeting dedicated to bashing Nichiren Shoshu and priests), and I felt WTF is going on? How is that a Bhuddism? But of course, I was very far from getting up and saying anything.
But now that you mentioned racism, I can tell you, that SGI cinically tried to portray me as racist in their attemt to tarnish my reputation and turn a multiracial community of Korea Town against me.
At that time I lived at 3355 Wilshire blvd, Los Angeles, CA, 90010 (the same street the SGI-USA headqurters located on). Coincidentally, the name of the building is Gaylord Apartments, named after Gaylord Wilshire, famous real estate mogul. Imagine, being portrayed as a homophobe in USC music department and living in Gaylord Apartments!
I loved multiracial environment of Korea Town - within one block I could eat Korean Bulgogi (Beef BBQ), Vietnamese noodles, Mexican burritos and old American sandwich in HMS Bounty, a great restaurant, located right downstairs in Gaylord Apartments. Needless to say, that spreading rumors about me being racist in this neighbourhood directly endagered me not just from the point of my reputation, but just plainly physically endangered my life. Because people didn't like hearing the news that some "USC student racist loser lives nearby", some of them could take action.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2012 02:00PM by bobze39.
Though unofficially, I did see some racist behaviour. One time, when I was helping to prepare the stage for a conference at 606 Wilshire blvd., Santa Monica, CA, SGI-USA headquarters, and I was putting some chairs on stage, I saw a woman, getting on stage and doing nazi salute, lots of people were present in the auditorium at the moment, and nobody said anything, in fact, some of her friends laughed, they thought it was funny. To my shame I didn't say anything either - another example of so called Bandwagon effect. Desire not to go agaist the herd. It's a well-known effect in psychology. It was also talked about in this thread. Even if individual realizes that something wrong is going on, he/she'd rather not say anything, if it contradicts majority. So, as I saw that nobody said anything, I didn't say anything either. That effect greatly helps SGI when it comes to bashing enemies - I remember sitting in LA friendship center in so called Soka Spirit meeting (basically a meeting dedicated to bashing Nichiren Shoshu and priests), and I felt WTF is going on? How is that a Bhuddism? But of course, I was very far from getting up and saying anything.
But now that you mentioned racism, I can tell you, that SGI cinically tried to portray me as racist in their attemt to tarnish my reputation and turn a multiracial community of Korea Town against me.
At that time I lived at 3355 Wilshire blvd, Los Angeles, CA, 90010 (the same street the SGI-USA headqurters located on). Coincidentally, the name of the building is Gaylord Apartments, named after Gaylord Wilshire, famous real estate mogul. Imagine, being portrayed as a homophobe in USC music department and living in Gaylord Apartments!
I loved multiracial environment of Korea Town - within one block I could eat Korean Bulgogi (Beef BBQ), Vietnamese noodles, Mexican burritos and old American sandwich in HMS Bounty, a great restaurant, located right downstairs in Gaylord Apartments. Needless to say, that spreading rumors about me being racist in this neighbourhood directly endagered me not just from the point of my reputation, but just plainly physically endangered my life. Because people didn't like hearing the news that some "USC student racist loser lives nearby", some of them could take action.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2012 02:00PM by bobze39.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
Hitch
()
Date: February 22, 2012 05:12PM
Some more partial identification behavior [www.youtube.com] (what's funny is that the guy in the front, if he were in Japan, would be completely castigated for having his hair like that - some ironic ignorance on his part).
On the topic of harassment, the gakkai members can also get borderline violent when confronted in a direct and strong way. That sure says a lot about their inherent buddha and peaceful nature, doesn't it. I've witnessed it on several occasions. I've seen temple members screamed at and physically pushed away and almost attacked when they showed up to regular gakkai activities (I'm on neither side, btw. I think it is all nonsense.) When you challenge somebody's deeply held irrational beliefs, they can respond by becoming even more irrational and potentially violent. Not a pretty picture, but it is definitely a real and genuine side of the gakkai, even in America. As this over 300 page thread clearly shows, there are some really pathological behaviors that are not just endemic, but pandemic to this organization.
On the topic of harassment, the gakkai members can also get borderline violent when confronted in a direct and strong way. That sure says a lot about their inherent buddha and peaceful nature, doesn't it. I've witnessed it on several occasions. I've seen temple members screamed at and physically pushed away and almost attacked when they showed up to regular gakkai activities (I'm on neither side, btw. I think it is all nonsense.) When you challenge somebody's deeply held irrational beliefs, they can respond by becoming even more irrational and potentially violent. Not a pretty picture, but it is definitely a real and genuine side of the gakkai, even in America. As this over 300 page thread clearly shows, there are some really pathological behaviors that are not just endemic, but pandemic to this organization.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
wakatta1
()
Date: February 22, 2012 06:42PM
Quote
Hitch
On the topic of harassment, the gakkai members can also get borderline violent when confronted in a direct and strong way. That sure says a lot about their inherent buddha and peaceful nature, doesn't it. I've witnessed it on several occasions. I've seen temple members screamed at and physically pushed away and almost attacked when they showed up to regular gakkai activities (I'm on neither side, btw. I think it is all nonsense.) When you challenge somebody's deeply held irrational beliefs, they can respond by becoming even more irrational and potentially violent. Not a pretty picture, but it is definitely a real and genuine side of the gakkai, even in America. As this over 300 page thread clearly shows, there are some really pathological behaviors that are not just endemic, but pandemic to this organization.
Hmm, the phrase "possessed by devils" comes to mind. I recall reading many NSA leadership guidances over the years in which the "non-gakkai" folks such as Nichiren Shu and such were considered as having been "possessed by devils". I thought "what is this possessed by devils thing...?"
So the question becomes: "Is the Buddha the devil to the devil?" Of course we all know why the Temple was demonized, it was to provide top cover for the "front office" to abscond with the organization, bank account and all. And the members simply obliged by joining in the games. Being cynical here, you might even liken what they played on as being a form of tribal warfare which is hard-wired into the human psyche.
If you watch the program called "Intervention" on the cable networks, you have friends and family trying to cause a family member to abandon the life of drugs or alcohol, get rehab and return to "real life". If you look at the person being intervened, to them, all of these well meaning people are "devils" who are interrupting their spiraling substance abuse lifestyle. In another instance, you might consider your parents as being "devils" when they advise you that the sweet thing that you're going to marry just so happens to have "serious" problems, thereby popping your balloon of delusion. What I'm saying is that the theory of relativity applies and the SGI/NST schism is a perfect example of how it works.
I guess there are lots of devils of all stripes out there, eh? The secret may be to know what kind of "devil" you end up being....
Wakatta1
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
rattyboy
()
Date: February 23, 2012 01:03AM
Thank you bobze39 for your input. I meant to suggest that maybe the article was suggesting that all other Buddhist groups may contain a speck of racism and that the Buddhist community at large should look into the reasons why SGI has many more non-whites. You would think the rest of the article would explore the Soka Gakkai after that but it did not. I don't feel inclined to send that magazine a letter but I'm sure any of us could explain to them why it hasn't been or shouldn't be included. (and not because the ikeda club is the only true buddhism!)
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
Hitch
()
Date: February 23, 2012 05:31AM
Quote
wakatta1
I guess there are lots of devils of all stripes out there, eh? The secret may be to know what kind of "devil" you end up being....
A couple of examples of other devilish behavior that I've seen/heard in the gakkai: a huge cardboard sign sitting on a easel at the kaikan, next to the bustudan, with things written on it like "things to chant for - the destruction of Nikken, Ikeda to visit" and members talking about how Nikken doesn't die quickly enough to suit them as punishment for all of his slander (in sgi-usa and sg japan, respectively). I kid you not. The only corner on the true "truth" / true "path" that these people have is the relative version that happens to suit their needs at any particular time.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
holly_golightly
()
Date: February 23, 2012 05:41AM
Quote
Shavoy
Did any of these leaders, who were giving encouragement to "use your heart", "say yes no matter what", etc. etc....ever reveal that they were experiencing Enlightenment, or Buddhahood--in other words, were they finally in that state of Unshakable Happiness?....(Probably not that they would truly reveal their Life Condition...)
[/quote Shavoy]
Good question Shavoy. I didn't really think about that at the time. I think I was so caught up in trusting and trying not to slander and feeling never good enough. I got into the practice at quite a young age quite a long time ago, and so all these feelings of not criticising, not acknowledging my feelings of negativity became second nature.
In about 2002 I did go through a stage of thinking that some of the SGI methods were very 'cult-like', especially the constant pressure to commit more and more time to SGI responsibilities. I remember going on a course and all the youth division were suddenly asked to stand up and sing a song for Sensei, and although it was all very good natured and in high spirits I felt, coerced, manipulated and completely negative. It always felt as if you didn't go along with things then you were the 'troublesome' buddhist that everyone was required to respect but if you kept chanting long enough you would do your human revolution and fit in with the general thinking. Or if you were upset at having to do something like that you must be 'changing some very heavy karma'.
Unfortunately, there was nothing around like this forum and no-one I could really talk to who would understand. I kept doubting myself and convinced myself it was 'fundamental darkness' that was affecting me. I ended up getting sucked right back in and totally threw myself into activities and responsibilities even more, thinking that it was because my 'mentor and disciple' relationship wasn't strong enough that I was having this angst.
I think I just had to get to the stage where I could clearly see how detrimental being in this organisation was to my life and how much better off I would be without it. I was lucky in that my life circumstances changed and suddenly I no longer had the same people around me to reinforce the beliefs. I took a big step back and started thinking properly again.
I think of it like a house of cards. If one card is pulled out, then the rest fall down. When I let go of the fear of 'fundamental darkness' and being a 'traitor' and causing myself negative karma, I allowed myself to think the unthinkable - what if some or all the things I had been told for 20 years weren't actually true? Although I know the road ahead may be a bit rocky, I now feel like I have been set free and the weight has lifted from my shoulders.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
Hitch
()
Date: February 23, 2012 08:52AM
Quote
holly_golightly
. . . it was all very good natured and in high spirits I felt, coerced, manipulated and completely negative.
Coerced - to do (street) shakubuku, to do lifelong zaimu, to subscribe to all the publications (multiple copies in some cases), to do more and more activities until you transform into a walking gakkai-zombie, to give more and more of your time and essentially do every and anything your "leaders" ask for . The youth div., in particular (back in my day), were routinely verbally and psychologically abused by what I would call "power hungry" psycho "leaders" (even as a young person, it was apparent to me).
Manipulated - to a new way of group-think and view the world the way they want you to, to unthinkingly obey all senior leaders and to take part in group affirmation trips (i.e., tozan-kai of the past - but now that the head temple is history - FNCC of the present) to crystallize this mode and manner of thinking.
Negative - how you are viewed and made to feel if you don't do all of the above and please every "leader" 100%.
An excellent summation of the "practice" and, unfortunately, the epitome of cult behavior.
Re: Former SGI members
Posted by:
Hitch
()
Date: February 24, 2012 07:51AM
Quote
tsukimoto
When I joined SGI/NSA in the late eighties, the DaiGohonzon was revered. It's a large wooden Gohonzon, and we were told that Nichiren carved it in the 1200's as a symbol of his vow to spread his Buddhist teachings throughout the world.
SGI leaders urged their members to make a Tozan, or pilgrimmage to see the DaiGohonzon, which was enshrined in the Shohondo Building at the main temple in Japan. I heard and read many experiences of members who made the pilgrimmage and either had some revelation and/or achieved some breakthrough in their lives.
And then the SGI and Nichiren Shoshu had their bitter divorce, and Nichiren Shoshu had custody of the DaiGohonzon. SGI members were told not to visit the head temple because the evil priests were there! Yet at the same time, SGI was complaining bitterly that Nichiren Shoshu was "holding the DaiGohonzon hostage!" Please note, the priests were willing enough to let SGI members visit the temple and the DaiGohonzon --- SGI was now saying "It's a bad cause to visit the temple, because the priests are so evil."
And now? People are saying that the Dai Gohonzon is not even authentic.
From the time of inception of nsa, up until fairly recently, the dai gohonzon was always DEEPLY revered as something akin to the shroud of turin. How quickly and conveniently things can change and how appropriate the analogy is because both, IMO, are simply pious fraud. In my view, the FNCC was created to fill the void and same purpose as tozan used to (group affirmations trips to solidify your practice and faith, which is just "code" for more intense and focused group brainwashing). On that note, for all you ol' time former members out there, enjoy this [www.freefallarchive.com] walk down "Cult Memory Lane." Times inevitably change and rules may be adjusted accordingly, but the game remains the same.
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