Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: wakatta1 ()
Date: February 09, 2012 09:13AM

@Hitch
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(...)

Sit back, if you can still feel your legs and enjoy the ensuing display of brainwashing. There will be a genki MC who will introduce you to the group with a thunderous applause following. Then there may be a song or two like "Higher Than The Sky" or "Have A Gohonzon" with people standing up and swinging their right arms back-n-forth (the modern day version is rappers & hip-hop dancing). This will quickly be followed by confirmation bias "experiences" about how the practice has transformed the lives of those who practice it (e.g., like leaving your car keys somewhere and miraculously finding them just when you needed them or overcoming that really bad bout of the flu quickly by practicing harder and challenging yourself more).
(...)

I love it - You've got the "Gakkai Rhythm" thing down solid! Um, perhaps just a little sharper around the edges than me, but you've hit all of the high spots. You'd think with people like Tina Turner and Herbie Hancock in the organization there would have been more creative group sings besides "hava gohonzon" :). BTW, is ole' Patrick Duffy still doing the Gakkai thing or did he swim back to Atlantis?

What is truly sad is that like most old-time members who voted with their feet, when I finally cut the umbilical cord I fully realized that I was years late in the process.

However, like I said in my previous post "better out than in I always say" :)

Wakatta1



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2012 09:26AM by wakatta1.

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Nichijew ()
Date: February 09, 2012 09:24AM

Hi Wakatta! Patrick Duffy is the SGI front man for Victory Over Violence. Good stuff Hitch and Moderator.

Mark

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI-USA - planned Social Engineering
Posted by: Hitch ()
Date: February 09, 2012 06:26PM

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The Anticult
That is planned Social Engineering by SGI-USA.
It really is.
After all, in Japan, there are planned socially engineered SGI towns, right? People live and breathe SGI in those areas, that is the mothership.

..... All the power is in Japan.

100% correct. Everything starts and ends in Japan, like a finely tuned machine that operates flawlessly. Sgi-usa is just a bastardized version. It doesn't work as well in America simply because the culture and mindset are so different. It's perfectly suited to Japanese psychology.

Btw, whenever the Prime Minister dissolves the Diet and calls for elections, the Gakkai machine quickly hums into action rallying the membership to support and vote for the "proper" candidates (New Komeito; or those friendly/cooperative to the party). Some of the support planning meetings are so secretive that you even get cursory screened for recording devices upon entering.

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The Anticult
As at the same time, the senior SGI people are on the lookout for people for a deeper involvement, and "promote" them to run the office, and load them up with work. Those are the people who start to get REALLY exploited by SGI and start to believe the Ikeda junk.
They are the ones to give SGI all of their money.

That is merely the entry level position, and then the SGI leaders poach people from that level, and move them up the ladder.
So it is a brilliant org, as they can say...hey we are not a cult, its low demand.
But in fact a lot more is going on, as proven in these threads and elsewhere.
So the meeting groups, are the bottom rung of the ladder, for revenue generation, and are only a tiny part of SGI.

Again, absolutely correct. The low entry level membership is sifted for those who can be manipulated. How far your rise depends on how effective you are at carrying out their goals. You'd think that after what they did to Mr. Williams, some would be able to see the writing on the wall; nobody is immune to being thrown under the bus if you fall out of favor with the top echelon in Japan.

Wakkata1 - I love that line! ("Better out than in, I always say.") Suits me perfectly, too.

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: evergreen ()
Date: February 10, 2012 12:26PM

Hitch - former fortune baby here. I didn't get to bypass anything nor did I get a get out of jail free card either.

evergreen

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Hitch ()
Date: February 10, 2012 02:12PM

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evergreen
Hitch - former fortune baby here. I didn't get to bypass anything nor did I get a get out of jail free card either.

evergreen

Hi evergreen, I know you didn't. I'm just sometimes a bit sardonic in my posts.

On that note: I'm sure that members have told you already that "your karma must be very, very heavy", even more so than most other fortune babies. Don't forget, however, that you are still as fortunate as the one-eyed turtle finding its sandalwood log, though.

In my view, the one-eyed turtle is a genetic defect, a mutant cyclops. It happens all the time in nature. Cellular signaling mechanisms gone awry during embryogenesis. If you tell them this, they will respond that you use your head too much and should chant more and think less.

It can literally go on ad nauseam.

As the daishonin (small "d" on "dai" intentional) is only speaking metaphorically, I am merely speaking sardonically. ;-)

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI, Fortune Baby social engineering
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: February 11, 2012 04:22PM

And of course being a Fortune Baby, is deep deep social engineering.
Ikeda and Co know that if you get to the CHILDREN at birth, the chance of them keeping with it later is much higher.
Also of course, parents will associate SGI with their own miracle SGI-baby, so it draws the entire family deeper into the sect.

It must be similar to people who grew up in other sects, JW, Christian Science, Scientology, etc.
One would assume growing up and coming out of that ain't easy.


But all these sects target intellient and imaginative people. Often blue collar type folks do NOT go for these zany cults, and see they are a scam to take your cash.
But more white collar people with degrees are often much EASIER to suck into a sect! They can rationalize all of it, and are sometimes arrogant and think they can't be touched.

SGI salespitch is simply Magical Thinking...Chant and Grow Rich.
Think and Grow Rich sold well too in the USA...there probably is a SGI-USA booklet Chant and Grow Rich!

And of course Celebrities are the perfect target, many of them have no training in these areas, and are...suckers. And the sect uses their name, Tina Turner was big years ago.
The fake kaballah and Scientology use that technique.


SGI is a giant SYSTEM...from first handling a pamphlet, to having SGI-certified-babies.

SGI-Ikeda...he gets them from womb to tomb...
SGI owns a bunch of cemetaries in Japan, right? Tomb.
They probably own birthing centers too!

And they want to be the government...it really is a very fanatical sect.

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Nichijew ()
Date: February 12, 2012 12:38AM

And from the very beginning they appropriated the teachings of the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren Daishonin to bolster and give their philosophy of greed ["gain"] an air of respectability. Shakyamuni Buddha and Nichiren Daishonin would be appalled. It gets me sick that they teach that "we are all Buddhas" but act as if some Buddhas [Ikeda, top leaders, fortune babies, etc.] are more worthy than others or that only some Buddhas [Ikeda and the top leaders] are worthy of receiving alms. In SGI, really, Ikeda and the top leaders are the only ones who gain. Everyone else loses by hearing one thing and living another. It is impossible to develop the kind of unshakeable faith that Shakyamuni Buddha and Nichiren Daishonin exhort in a sangha [group] that functions as they.

Nichijew



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2012 12:41AM by Nichijew.

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Soka Gakkai International -SGI-USA Chant and Grow Rich!
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: February 12, 2012 04:01AM

Can't believe no one has written the book...as part of SGI-USA...

"Chant and Grow Rich".

As a take-off of Think and Grow Rich.

Its just the kind of thing people would buy, sadly.

Former SGI members, Greed is Good, Chant and Grow Rich
[forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2012 04:04AM by The Anticult.

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Hitch ()
Date: February 12, 2012 08:16AM

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wakatta1
I have really enjoyed reading everyone's insights into the questions posed by the new arrivals. Certainly there is a lot to be shared amongst us both in regards to insight into the practice, but also to put form to the many concerns that each of those of long standing have had.

Someone mentioned about old members and their reasons for holding on to the SGI. I agree, there are those who will stay through thick and thin, and others that will fade away "like the morning dew".

To my recollections I think things basically broke down into a couple different groupings of generic member types - hopefully I can add a little insight.

Group 1 - People who wandered into or were drawn into SGI randomly.
Group 2 - People who were drawn into SGI based upon intellectual curiousity.
Group 3 - People who were drawn into SGI because of a family member
Group 4 - People who were drawn into SGI because they married a Japanese member

First off, although groups 3 and 4 seem to be the same thing, I differentiate between them because of an important distinction: In the late 60's and early 70's, many Japanese brides returned to the US on the arm of a GI. For them, SGI represented a lifeline home, and today, many of these women now make up the core of the WD. Back then they were strangers in a new land and they wanted to recreate Japan in the US, and the place they chose to do that was within the SGI. In some cases it was innocent, and in other cases it was abusive. In all cases it had more to do with recreating a comfortable and familiar environment than it had to do with chanting or pursuing enlightenment. Very few war-bride WD I encountered knew much more about Nichiren buddhism beyond chanting, doing gongyo and paying zaimu. These ladies and their husbands today still form the core of members who will remain no matter what Ikea does. Also, the Soka Gakkai in Japan was well aware of the shakubuku power of young attractive ladies, and as I recall, many of them were told that they got "benefits" for each "fellow" they brought in and were encouraged to cultivate relationships with American GI's. Proseletization through hormones.

Group 3 folks may also be inclined to stay with the organization, but usually, once their family member is out of their environment or distracted with other things they fall away. Again, in many cases there is little to do with buddhism in regards to their participation.

Group 2 people fall into a couple different sub-categories. (1) Highly intellectual folks who seriously want to pursue buddhism and believe they can do it successfully through sgi. (2) intellectual folks who do buddhism because it makes them seem intellectual and (3) intellectual folks who have become leaders and no have "skin in the game" either through reputation or a sense of "mission". This is the cadre of folks running district, chapter and hombu activities (unpaid). The people in (1) will hang on until they are shown the organization is not what they thought and they will become disillusioned and fall away. Those in (2) are a coin-flip as to whether they stay or go, and those in (3) will be with it to the bitter end.

Group 1 folks seemed to come and go. In my experience a small percentage ever grew into more than just random curiousity, and in many cases I heard that they joined to meet girls/guys or that something about the practice "felt" interesting and they wanted to experience it more. Usually organizational changes would force them out such as forcing them to do "pac-man shakubuku" or street shakubuku was enough to chase them off.

Now, I have left one category out, and that is both the paid leaders and those leaders who were "hand picked" by the upper japanese leadership (american leaders weren't allowed to do such "anointed" actions). These people are the core of the bureaucracy that is the skeleton SGI is attached to. Many are good at giving speeches, looking pious, chanting for long periods of time, and in general fawning over the next level of leadership up. They will always be there, no matter what SGI does - they are like "salary men" with mitsubishii, toyota or honda. They are in it for life. SGI is their mother and their father, and it is embodied in the "sensei".

In some cases I'm sad good people got side-tracked into this quagmire, and in other cases I think some of these people deserve one another. Watching the Japanese WD and MD interact (in Japanese) was really an eye-opener to see the depths of unhappiness that lurked between the couples practicing at the high levels. Besides slanderous words there is another type of Onshitsu which was the very deep passive-aggressive anger both groups had for one another. Perhaps that is they reason they favored being separate so they didn't have to interact. Wifey can be the high-muckety-muck WD leader and hubby can do the same with the MD.

So there you have it, an x-ray view of my experiences with SGI as a whole. Sprinkle onto that a few, sincere and caring people who I have had the good fortune to have encountered during my practice and that's about it.

And that is why I call myself Wakatta

Yoku wakarimashita, indeed. I greatly enjoy many of your bulls-eye posts and thank you for sharing them. The above, in particular, is one such example.

I can only add to category #3, simply because it is the umbrella that I fell under. Once I reached an age where I was able to think critically, I pulled myself out. It is probably a general theme that can be found with others in different faiths and religions, too.

Each of our lives is a journey from ignorance to knowledge and we are all susceptible to being lead astray to varying degrees at different points during our lives. It is all also heavily influenced by individual circumstances.

Faith, in general, which is belief without evidence, is not for me. In my view, it's just different levels of hucksterism exploiting ignorance. Sgi/Sgi-x, in particular, is a fanocracy dressed up in pious robes as a cover, dispensing epaulettes from the top down with leaders maneuvering to clutch as many as they can and occasionally share with the membership of their choosing. The epaulette-collector-in-chief at the top is Ikeda, who is ultimately a man with some precarious self-esteem issues.

Those who stay obviously get something out of it and to each their own. I myself experienced a liberation by breaking the shackles, stepping out of and walking away from the soka-gakkai-nichiren-shoshu miasma. Thru this board, perhaps others will have a chance to follow as well. On that note, thanks to Rick Ross and all who make up this board.

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -SGI-USA Chant and Grow Rich!
Posted by: Nichijew ()
Date: February 12, 2012 02:04PM

Quote
The Anticult
Can't believe no one has written the book...as part of SGI-USA...

"Chant and Grow Rich".

As a take-off of Think and Grow Rich.

Its just the kind of thing people would buy, sadly.

Former SGI members, Greed is Good, Chant and Grow Rich
[forum.culteducation.com]

Can you imagine a "Buddhist" group appealing to man's most base desires as the the key to Enlightened Wisdom? No. SGI members are not Buddhist.

Nichijew

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