Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Lilith ()
Date: September 18, 2020 08:29PM

My personal observation of cult tactics. A cult will embrace conservative thinking. Conservative thinking (in the political sense) controls free will. The bible says God granted people free will to do right or wrong. That is for the individual decide not a church and certainly not a government.
Regarding public welfare:
Those who give to the poor will lack nothing, but those who close their eyes to them receive many curses. — Proverbs 28:27 that certainly flies in the face of the conservative view of "why should I pay for someone else, I worked hard so should they". Well what if they can't? And this definitely places the greed of the TLWF leaders under a lens when the people had virtually nothing and were still called upon to give.
Conservative thinking and politics were encouraged in the Walk because that gave them permission to control you. Liberal thinking, if you were ever called a "free spirit" this is what you stood accused of and liberal politics were soundly discouraged because things likes charity siphoned funds away from the Walk, things like inclusion flew in the face of the exclusion doctrine, acceptance of anything "other" upset them because that was for the Walk leadership to decide and the doctrine was fear of the outside and other. I could go on. What the ex members need to think about regarding their conservative views is is that how you really think? Really? No charity because that is an entitlement, fearing others and anything different, control of women and their bodies is perfectly okay because god is too small and scared to deal with these things god is impotent and requires government to impose his will. If this is actually the case perhaps it is time to wake the hell up and find a new god. If you were smart enough to leave a cult you are smart enough to examine some pretty religiously imposed political beliefs otherwise you are still exercising cult thinking. Unless of course you are actually a racist, selfish, entitled human being then by all means carry on but at least think about it honestly. Because conservative thinking closes it's ears and eyes and will hear nothing but the party or religious line. Liberal thinking is curious and want's to hear, know and understand without the noise of fear and religion. Think about that.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: changedagain ()
Date: September 19, 2020 02:28AM

Lilith wrote:
Proverbs 28:27 that certainly flies in the face of the conservative view of "why should I pay for someone else, I worked hard so should they". Well what if they can't? And this definitely places the greed of the TLWF leaders under a lens when the people had virtually nothing and were still called upon to give.


And there was a certain sadism in their attitude, at least with G & M. They seemed at best indifferent toward people's times, appearing to relish in it. This excerpt of post by 'Imapurple,' who experienced it first hand:

Posted by: Imapurple
Date: October 31, 2019 07:52PM

Seeing Donna in the middle yard with the baby while G&M were beginning their relationship (while JRS was in bed dying) was heartbreaking. I remember one time while in Shiloh G&M putting Donna down and thinking something was really really wrong with all this. Also them showing me a check for 30k that someone had just given them. I was just thinking wow! I’m here at my own expense (in Shiloh ) wondering if I can pay my rent and you’re showing me this.

Looking back I find so many things that were so so wrong and it keeps coming up every day.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: changedagain ()
Date: September 20, 2020 06:47AM

Again, Marilyn condemning members of the fellowship for not loving or praying for John enough, knowing full well she had been getting busy with her new boyfriend as he lay dying.
Now that's a sociopath.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: changedagain ()
Date: September 21, 2020 11:40PM

The 'miraculous healing' post by Richard M. from February of 2019:

Posted by: Richard M.
Date: February 28, 2019 03:19PM

While reading everything here on page 840, including comments by Tmason, this whole thing, "JRS, Marilyn, Gary and Rick," reminds me of an organized crime syndicate, but finds me with great trepidation for the unknowing victims now caught as willing or unwilling witnesses questioning whether or not to testify to an enlightened truth of the past intent on ousting the guilty while saving the innocent, an ominous but righteous task . . . . What has always miffed me, but what is strikingly obvious in these present pages, is how such a high level of intelligence of so many people could have been duped for so long . . . . . I remember one incident "praised" by Stevens that I told Marilyn was the height of ignorance, a boy had broken his arm and was in a cast, then six weeks later was “praised” as a miraculous healing when the cast came off . . .

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: changedagain ()
Date: September 22, 2020 12:54AM

Referencing the boisterous Happy Clark:

Posted by: changedagain
Date: August 28, 2014 07:34AM

This question posed to 'The Man of God' during a church service in the 70's keeps lifting my spirit to this day:

Posted by: FCSLC
Date: August 29, 2014 12:37PM

I think a big "red light" moment for me happened in the Anaheim church. JRS was talking and Happy Clark stood up and said "Brother Stevens, you're the Christ". John just chuckled and said something general like "Bless you, Happy".

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: changedagain ()
Date: September 22, 2020 08:52PM

A plea from Reep to sever ties with religious leaders who have no real concern for your well being:

Posted by: Reepicheep
Date: July 27, 2020 10:57PM

And now to those who won't or can't leave the group formerly known as TLWF. I was just like you for over forty years. Here is a word to the wise:

The owners of The Walk/The Living Word Fellowship have been degenerate conmen and women from the start. Yes, I said "owners" because that's what they are. Did you think that you had any say at all in what happens in the "Fellowship"? Just because you bow and scrape and give them the very essence of your soul and everything you have? They don't give a rat's a$$ about you. They are narcissistic sociopaths who have set themselves up as God. How do you argue with that? If you are still bowing to the God-owners, then they own you too, lock stock and barrel. Think about it. Now that they have been exposed, this would be the perfect time to wake up and RUN. Get the hell out before they destroy another generation of your loved ones. You know, the family members that the God-owners will send you off to when you are too old and sick to care for yourself? Hopefully, those children and other family members will forgive you and care for you. The God-owners sure as hell won't. When they have taken every last dime from you and every last ounce of your strength, they will give you a "Word from God" to go live with the family that they ordered you to shun for all those years. If you have been around for any length of time, deep down you know this is true.

If they really were "Christ in the flesh", they would not treat people this way. They have lied to you. Please listen, for once. Your children try to help you, but you blow them off. I hear them crying. It's disgusting. Stop. Please, stop.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2020 08:54PM by changedagain.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: changedagain ()
Date: September 23, 2020 05:41AM

Posts from October of 2018:

Posted by: changedagain
Date: October 22, 2018 02:04PM

puddington Wrote:
> I suppose Gary will next bring a series of sermons
> on forgiveness. He’ll tell Rick’s victims to drop
> their bitterness and forgive Rick. Any of you
> reading this that were abused by Rick, I’d think
> twice before forgiving Rick. I think he needs to
> earn it. In some cases, he shouldn’t ever be
> forgiven.

Yeah, let him at least publicly own up to what he has done, before the people are required to forgive him and move on. What is the probability of that happening? Perhaps this will be the one time in TLWF history when a major scandal involving leadership doesn't result in another heavy burden being placed upon the rank and file. But as it has often been said here by the vets--don't hold your breath.

Posted by: Lifeontheotherside
Date: October 22, 2018 06:14PM

I have been watching all that has been going on recently with Rick. I have watched it before. I wished in the past that “THIS WOULD BE IT!” Accountability and truth. It never was and sadly don’t think it will be now. I too think that Gary needs to take full responsibility for all that has gone on. COME ON! There is no way he couldn’t have known.
I have been slightly hopeful that this could be it but unfortunately I am looking to see how in the heck they will still continue to spin it. :(

Posted by: Cloudwatcher
Date: October 22, 2018 06:24PM

The thing is, I think it goes much deeper than Gary knowing what is going on and begs the question of why he would allow it unless he was also in the fray. Sex, Money, and Power---they go together. To think that Gary and Marilyn only exhibited two of these is naive at best. Where there is smoke there is fire. Rick is a scapegoat that is guilty----how convenient for the skeletons in Gary's closet.

Posted by: puddington
Date: October 24, 2018 07:01AM

I’ve recently talked with several current LW members who are encouraged about what is happening at TLWF. They are pointing out to me that Gary is demonstrating total integrity by requesting the 360 degree evaluation letters from congregants.

And then it dawned on me. Everything written in those letters he already knew about. He had to. Knowing how everything is run by G&M, he had to be following the reports about Rick. But by collecting feedback letters, he could play this charade of fake shock and surprise. And then he could issue a public statement like “gosh, we had no idea this was going on”. It is a clever way to cover his butt and create a condition of “plausible deniability”.

Posted by: Cloudwatcher
Date: October 24, 2018 11:23AM

It doesn't matter to any of TLWF who did what because Gary represents God. He can say what he wants when he wants--do what he wants when he wants with impunity. He has layers protecting him--because you do not question God--ever.

It is doubtful that anyone left will escape that place now. Gary has it covered. I once had a phone conversation with RRModerator. He told me that TLWF was the worst case scenario and that the odds of getting out were slim. It was a tough pill to swallow with family on the inside, but now I see how true that statement is --they will not use their God-given mind and reason or anything that is rational to decide on these matters. It is sad sad sad. Some of the most intelligent, capable and beautiful people ---captured in a moment long ago--that was it.

Posted by: changedagain
Date: October 25, 2018 09:15AM

kBOY Wrote:

> In today's climate of exposure of things long
> hidden, they are definitely on the run and headed
> for the cliff they always thought they could keep
> at a safe distance.

If Gary and Matt were not aware of this predatory behavior taking place in their midst for over 30 years, than they should go down as the least perceptive 'prophets of God' in church history. A bit of hyperbole here, but not too far off the mark.
To those being threatened--do what is right, not what you're being told to do.
I'm not a lawyer, but I believe the right to privacy does not exist if you've engaged in criminal behavior. Covering up sexual abuse would fit into that category.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Date: September 24, 2020 02:12AM

In cleaning out some files on my laptop, I found the following which I wrote on 11/03/18. I'm not sure where I even posted it, but I am posting it here, in case there might be anyone reading that still feels some kind of allegiance to TLWF.

I lost my original response to this post. Hopefully, I can get it said. As the mother of a 32 year that walked away from this years before me or Dave, this is a plea to any of the parents reading that feel their kids have gone to far with what they have said. Its not meant to embarrass or scold, but I have to say it. Please consider how you raised you kids. Not listening to them is a disservice to your relationship, and signals volumes in telling them that you don't trust their perception or observations (which pretty much sums up our whole walk with God in the fellowship). I'm pretty sure you raised them to know right from wrong, to value the fact that all men are created equal, to speak the truth no matter the consequences, to live a life of integrity in all relationships, and to do their best to treat people with respect. The list goes on and on.

But now they have taken those values and put them into action. I'm well aware of how hard it is to realize that many of the leaders you respected might not be who you thought they were. If you are offended by stories calling out specific names, you might want to back it down. You may want to realize that previous attempts could have been interpreted as too vague and allowed decades of deceit and abuse to continue. Being very detailed at this time ws necessary. Previous attempts to report abuses were ignored. It allowed a church to perfect a culture of bullying, disrespect of women and girls, a culture of believing that some deserve what other don't, and a culture of making sure that those that don't feel that they are not deserving. I've had many conversations, while still in the church, over the years with other mom and dads where many of the same things were said. It is no secret that adults and children were demeaned, bullied, looked down on, made to feel unloved and unworthy - nothing that sounded like Jesus' pattern of relating - all in the name of "working something in your spirit", the sandpaper ministry, blah, blah, blah.

If you are reading this and you are able to turn an ear to hearing that Shalom wrote a letter to several to discuss in detail how she had to keep her eyes shut to tell herself it was not happening, that it was not only done in a room with others watching, that this man bragged about it, and still you can still maintain a loyalty to those in power that actually chose to not just cover up abuses but promote the perpetrators for decades, then maybe you should not call yourself a parent. For those of you reading these posts that are at least able to recognize that grievous errors in judgement have been exhibited, I salute you and honor your choice to listen and acknowledge that we (YOU) are a people that need to make some drastic changes.

Does it break my heart to realize that Gary and others chose to cover things up? Yes. Does anybody find comfort in calling people out for the abuse? I'm pretty sure not. Do these posts represent a lot of disappointment in the leadership of TLWF? Pretty much. I have no doubt that each person in leadership was treated like shit too. We get it. But if you are reading this and still wondering what to do, please recognize that there is life after change.

Please know that now is the time to do what you taught your kids, and stand up for decency and for the truth. Yes, our world is falling apart a little, but it is important to right it.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: changedagain ()
Date: September 26, 2020 04:09AM

This article (below) must be referring to a different Gary Hargrave than the one we knew :)

The Jerusalem Post
September 21, 2020

Gary Hargrave on the Intrinsic Value of Giving

"With decades of experience in Christian ministry and church leadership, Gary Hargrave is known especially for his message of unity through spiritual maturity. His teachings embrace the importance of giving—a selfless action that is deeply rooted in the Christian faith. His insights also strongly embrace the Hebrew Scriptures, which adamantly advocate for cheerful, selfless giving.

It was this firm belief in the power of compassion and selfless action that led him to launch Hargrave Ministries, a project which partners with credible outreach programs to bless the land and people of Israel through food box programs, preservation efforts, care initiatives, and other forms of support.

While the principle of giving has long been considered a key tenet to the Christian faith, it also offers intrinsic value to the individual. The following are just a few of the many long-lasting rewards of choosing to invest in others through charity initiatives.
Mental and Emotional Benefits
The unquestionable purpose of charity is to better the lives of others—however, a growing body of evidence suggests that the regular performance of selfless acts hold a plethora of mental and emotional benefits not just for the receiver, but for the giver as well. A study conducted by the Women’s Philanthropy Institute, for example, identifies a strong positive correlation between the percentage of household income dedicated to charity and overall life satisfaction. In other words, those who selflessly donate considerable percentages of their income to charitable causes are likely to report feeling content, happy, and fulfilled.

In a world where a tragedy occurs frequently and corruption seems unavoidable, Gary Hargrave highlights charitable donations as an empowering opportunity to deliver valuable contributions in areas where individuals may not otherwise have any control. Amidst turmoil and disaster, charitable opportunities such as those offered by Hargrave Ministries may deliver an escape from feelings of helplessness and hopelessness. This may, in turn, reduce anxiety and depression. Additionally, it is shown to decrease blood pressure, which may ultimately lengthen lifespan. Individuals also report feeling empowered after contributing to a cause, leading some to speculate that selfless contributions may serve to boost self-esteem, yielding a myriad of benefits in the giver’s day-to-day life.
Delivering Purpose and Meaning
Purpose informs everything about our lives. It determines our goals, offers directions, and guides us on our paths. Ultimately, it is the reason we get out of bed each morning—the drive that fuels our zest for life. Interestingly, it is community-minded values (not individualistic or self-serving goals) that provide the most meaningful, powerful sense of purpose.

Consciously and continually contributing to causes outside your own interest is one of the most effective ways to grow a vigorous sense of purpose and meaning. Doing so connects you to a cause or a community that is larger than yourself. In doubling your world and broadening your horizon, charitable opportunities also vastly expand a giver’s capacity for experiencing joy and compassion, thereby facilitating a more meaningful and fulfilling day-to-day existence.
Promoting Connection
We may live largely independent and unfortunately isolated lives in modern society, but humans are still social creatures at their core. Regarding the primary intrinsic value of giving, Gary Hargrave highlights its ability to unite and drive social connection, which holds significant benefits for the human spirit.

Giving back through the donation of either time or money is a wonderful way to invest more fully in your community—whether that community is your neighborhood, your nation, a niche group of individuals with whom you share an identity or the world as a whole. Selfless donations also serve to better the lives of those around you, thereby cultivating tightly knit support systems that enrich the lives of all participants. In promoting a greater interconnectedness among community members, all participants benefit greatly—the giver included.

Collectively, these efforts can work to reduce feelings of loneliness and isolation which have become unfortunately commonplace in today’s world. In short, selfless action does not simply better the lives of less-fortunate individuals; it improves the quality and strength of a community’s foundation and very fabric.
Compassion: A Domino Effect
Gary Hargrave puts it simply: compassion is contagious. While it is easier to see the tangible primary impacts of a charitable contribution, it is impossible to determine that action’s extended positive influence. In many ways, giving functions as a chain reaction, offering no definite limit to potential benefits.

For example, when one person makes a selfless contribution to a worthy cause, it inspires others to do the same. The beauty of this phenomenon is that givers can never fully know the auxiliary impacts of their initial gift—there is no limit to the lives it could change or inspiration it could incite.

Similarly, kindness inspires kindness. If you have donated a portion of your income to a charitable program like Hargrave Ministries which passes it along to organizations such as Yad Eliezer, your contribution will be used to deliver food and essentials to Israel’s most impoverished families. However, alongside their tangible contributions, Yad Eliezer’s food boxes also restore hope, inspire kindness, and foster compassion among recipients, creating a ripple effect with no definite end. Put in perspective of the limitless nature of compassion, giving grants each of us the power to literally change our world through small actions and regular contributions."


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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: changedagain ()
Date: September 26, 2020 04:29AM

I'm assuming 'Aleutian' is referring to a different Gary Hargrave than the one mentioned in the article above who is an example of kindness, compassion and selfless service:

Posted by: Aleutian
Date: January 09, 2019 09:12PM

I recently recalled a time I was volunteering working on Gary and Marilyn's luxury home on Oahu in Hawaii. It was a hot summer day, and I didn´t bring any sunscreen.

I had the nerve to ask for some. After all, I was working for free. Instead of them helping me, they called for their handler¨at the time to help me. He was quite flustered that I didn´t ask him first and chewed me out, telling me to follow "divine order."

It was a good light-bulb moment for me. After that I said "F%$K this" haha.

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