changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From January, 2016:
>
> Posted by: TheJewel
> Date: January 09, 2016 03:51AM
>
> I wanted to make a comment in answer to someone’s
> post (too lazy to go back and hunt down who)
> regarding whether JRS was a member of the John
> Birch Society. While I cannot say one way or the
> other whether JRS himself carried a membership
> card, I am pretty sure that many of the key
> players in the walk at that time were followers of
> the major conspiracy theorists of the day and
> subscribed to a lot of their ideas. This was
> particularly true of RD Cronquist. I know he was
> following Dr. Peter D. Beeter (how do you get a
> name like that?) who was dredging up some of the
> most amazing stuff. You can do a Google search on
> this guy if you like. I remember one night in late
> ’77 RD called a restricted elders meeting to play
> one of Beeters tapes (#26 dated 9/30/77, I
> believe) regarding a particle beam weapon that the
> Russians had built on the moon and how they were
> holding the US hostage, blah, blah, blah.
>
> I remember a lot of this sort of thing at the
> time; it dovetailed nicely with the Nephilim thing
> and the Rockefeller – Illuminati conspiracy
> theorems that were also popular at the time. JRS
> wove some of this stuff into some of his preaching
> but never seemed quite as into it as RD was. At
> the same time I doubt that any of these guys were
> dues paying members of the JB society, they
> wouldn’t need to be the info was pretty freely
> available and I suspect that some of the
> congregants were.
>
> Someone else asked about storing food, ammo guns
> etc. Some were doing all of that (preparing for
> the tribulation, the zombie apocalypse or
> whatever) but I don’t think anything but the food
> part was being strongly pushed from the pulpit.
> The trouble with the food part is that while they
> encouraged people to buy it (from the church store
> – I forgot what the name for that “kingdom
> business” was), they didn’t really educate people
> in how to prepare it for storage. I popped the lid
> on some of that stuff about 5 years after leaving
> the walk and it had gone pretty bad. Had the
> apocalypse come, I think some people would have
> been awfully disappointed (not to mention hungry).


Could the "Kingdom Business" have been King's Table? That store/restaurant was in the SF Valley.

I think I've posted this tidbit before, but I distinctly recall hearing JRS say from the pulpit that if George McGovern won the presidential election in 1972 that the US would be plunged into a thousand years of dark ages. Also, he distributed some John Birch pamphlets at church.

1972--Neighbors arguing politics:

Give me one valid reason I should not vote for McGovern.

The United States will be plunged into the dark ages for a thousand years.

O.K.--besides that?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2021 02:07AM by changedagain.

1979:

Posted by: changedagain
Date: November 07, 2016 02:49PM

The account of John's vision of the Kingdom (which allegedly arrived in December of '79) can be found in the book 'The Shape of Things to Come'. I've had a copy buried for years somewhere in my garage...which I might search for should I ever have a renewed interest in the details of this vision. I do vaguely recall John stating that in the Kingdom there were no stoplights. Does anyone else recall this? If that's the case, then there have been a few times in the past 35 years when I could have used this truth to my advantage with law enforcement. Example:

Me: Officer, the stoplight you are referring to does not exist.
Officer: Here is your ticket.
Me: I'm in the Kingdom. There are no stoplights. Apostle John Robert Stevens said so!!
Officer: You need psychiatric help, sir. Good day.
;)


Posted by: Saw enough
Date: November 16, 2016 10:16PM

Gary has persisted in promoting the vision JRS allegedly had in 1972 seeing 7 years into the Kingdom, even though one of the Blix girls at that time told Gary and Marilyn that she had been with John Stevens that entire day. This was common knowledge among the Living Word Building gossips. It was bad enough that John felt the need to cover for his day-long disappearance with a fantastic story about his vision and being caught up in the spirit so that he lost all track of time. But for Gary and Marilyn to continue to peddle the vision as a selling point for how they are the fulfillment of that prophetic community seems cynical and horrific.

A few posts from February 2019:


Posted by: Reepicheep
Date: February 20, 2019 07:08AM

Richard M., you are awesome for sharing your experiences. I didn't see this when it was on FACTNET, but it is so important that you shared it again. This is epic, and should lay to rest the thinking that the founder of the Walk was anything other than a very skilled conman. I want to believe in Santa Claus and the Wizard of Oz too, but it is not a healthy obsession for adults. And neither is the sacred cow status of John Robert Steven and his "Walk".


Posted by: Stardomino1
Date: February 20, 2019 07:52AM

I am thankful to everyone who has posted! Richard, I always wondered what had happened to You. Thank you so much for helping us all have more clarity, and I am very sorry for everything you went through. Back then, I never questioned anything very deeply. So caught up in everything...never doubting, and even less considering something to be wrong!

You are right, onion, there was a high price paid by each of us who participated.

One thing That was spoken by JRS many times is that you will know whether something is true by the fruit. This is all very evident now. Maybe that was one of the few accurate words. Love to all!

Posted by: Richard M.
Date: February 20, 2019 08:33AM

Reepicheep, thanks. I knew Stevens was a phony when I first saw and met him. He wouldn't look at me eye-to-eye and seemed even a little frightened of me. Of course, it later made more sense. But if there hadn't been Marilyn and my kids tied to her, he never would have survived to stand at another sermon . . . But I had my own future and two kids’ lives to consider so abdicated to a lesser course. Absent any formal complaint of coerced sexual or other criminal misconduct, "religious freedom" protects the otherwise guilty until far too late .. . . . You know of Jim Jones and his murder-suicide of his followers, but hardly anyone knows that long before that he had been arrested in a movie theater for lewd conduct by a Rampart Division vice officer. It had been politically attempted to be covered up by a judge and other officials by destroying or pulling all documents, but the arresting officer had kept his own copy of the arrest report. It was made public again after the murders. I know, I forwarded a copy of the only surviving document to the Chief of Police. I say this because it’s also possible that credible and formal complaints of coercion and sexual abuse of minors had long been made on Stevens and Rick that were, or were not, properly investigated . . . who knows?

Posted by: that little red flag
Date: February 20, 2019 09:18AM

Richard M. -

Wow. Thank you for sharing. I, like others that have spent decades living this lie, appreciate your insight and honesty. I remarked to my husband, as I started to read your story, how easy it was to assume and believe that you were the bad guy. I can also feel the heartache of hearing you acknowledge losing a wife and kids to all of the deceit. I'm sure some of the posts here are hard to read, but on the other hand, I can only imagine how validating they are for you. It sounds like you lived a life worth living beyond all of this. Welcome to the forum, and thanks again for giving us additional insight to the maze of the Living Word Fellowship Cult.

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> changedagain Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > From January, 2016:
> >
> > Posted by: TheJewel
> > Date: January 09, 2016 03:51AM
> >
> > I wanted to make a comment in answer to
> someone’s
> > post (too lazy to go back and hunt down who)
> > regarding whether JRS was a member of the John
> > Birch Society. While I cannot say one way or
> the
> > other whether JRS himself carried a membership
> > card, I am pretty sure that many of the key
> > players in the walk at that time were followers
> of
> > the major conspiracy theorists of the day and
> > subscribed to a lot of their ideas. This was
> > particularly true of RD Cronquist. I know he
> was
> > following Dr. Peter D. Beeter (how do you get a
> > name like that?) who was dredging up some of
> the
> > most amazing stuff. You can do a Google search
> on
> > this guy if you like. I remember one night in
> late
> > ’77 RD called a restricted elders meeting to
> play
> > one of Beeters tapes (#26 dated 9/30/77, I
> > believe) regarding a particle beam weapon that
> the
> > Russians had built on the moon and how they
> were
> > holding the US hostage, blah, blah, blah.
> >
> > I remember a lot of this sort of thing at the
> > time; it dovetailed nicely with the Nephilim
> thing
> > and the Rockefeller – Illuminati conspiracy
> > theorems that were also popular at the time.
> JRS
> > wove some of this stuff into some of his
> preaching
> > but never seemed quite as into it as RD was. At
> > the same time I doubt that any of these guys
> were
> > dues paying members of the JB society, they
> > wouldn’t need to be the info was pretty freely
> > available and I suspect that some of the
> > congregants were.
> >
> > Someone else asked about storing food, ammo
> guns
> > etc. Some were doing all of that (preparing for
> > the tribulation, the zombie apocalypse or
> > whatever) but I don’t think anything but the
> food
> > part was being strongly pushed from the pulpit.
> > The trouble with the food part is that while
> they
> > encouraged people to buy it (from the church
> store
> > – I forgot what the name for that “kingdom
> > business” was), they didn’t really educate
> people
> > in how to prepare it for storage. I popped the
> lid
> > on some of that stuff about 5 years after
> leaving
> > the walk and it had gone pretty bad. Had the
> > apocalypse come, I think some people would have
> > been awfully disappointed (not to mention
> hungry).
>
>
> Could the "Kingdom Business" have been King's
> Table? That store/restaurant was in the SF Valley.
>
> I think I've posted this tidbit before, but I
> distinctly recall hearing JRS say from the pulpit
> that if George McGovern won the presidential
> election in 1972 that the US would be plunged into
> a thousand years of dark ages. Also, he
> distributed some John Birch pamphlets at
> church.

I always had a bit of trouble with that sort of politicking from the pulpit but it did go on. The strange thing is, that a lot of that same crap is circulating today. Illuminati, Tri-lateral commission, bla, bla, bla. It has woven itself solidly into right wing politics (and maybe the left as well). I am glad to be out. I never really fit in anyway, I asked too many questions.

Funny story about too many questions: About five years ago, I had an engineer working for me who was a Church of God PK. I was telling him some of these stories and then I said that I always asked too many Unanswerable questions like, “why no sex before marriage?” To which he replied “Oh, come on…, everyone knows that answer. It’s because sex leads to dancing.”

The Jewel wrote:
About five years ago, I had an engineer working for me who was a Church of God PK. I was telling him some of these stories and then I said that I always asked too many Unanswerable questions like, “why no sex before marriage?” To which he replied “Oh, come on…, everyone knows that answer. It’s because sex leads to dancing.”

Funny
I wonder if Elaine Benes had practiced abstinence, she would have been spared that embarrassing dance at a company party which marked the rest of her life :)

Chicken catching? At least I was spared that.

A post by 'fool me twice' from March 2019:

Posted by: fool me twice
Date: March 23, 2019 08:01AM

kbyrne wrote:
Yes, and add to that not just the free labor, sub-minimum wage, but the money that was made FOR TLW from kingdom businesses.

I don't know how many times I went "chicken catching." What a horrible and dirty job, and every cent went to Shiloh.

One of the biggest betrayals is that I thought that the leadership was living the same life of sacrifice that we were living.

I sure don't remember Gary going chicken catching with us. ;-)

My wife and I were at those chicken catching 'events' nearly every time they were held. It was indeed horrible and dirty. My wife developed allergies later to both dust and feathers. I did not ever see Gary there. ;-)
In 1974, just after my wife and I were married, I worked in a KB for a wage of $35.00 a week. After three months I got a raise to $75.00 a week.

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Chicken catching? At least I was spared that.

Posted by: fool me twice
Date: March 23, 2019 08:01AM

kbyrne wrote:
Yes, and add to that not just the free labor, sub-minimum wage, but the money that was made FOR TLW from kingdom businesses.

I don't know how many times I went "chicken catching." What a horrible and dirty job, and every cent went to Shiloh.

One of the biggest betrayals is that I thought that the leadership was living the same life of sacrifice that we were living.

I sure don't remember Gary going chicken catching with us. ;-)

My wife and I were at those chicken catching 'events' nearly every time they were held. It was indeed horrible and dirty. My wife developed allergies later to both dust and feathers. I did not ever see Gary there. ;-)
In 1974, just after my wife and I were married, I worked in a KB for a wage of $35.00 a week. After three months I got a raise to $75.00 a week.

Changed and Fool Me Twice,

I never recall seeing Gary (or Marilyn) working anywhere. Same for JRS. And did they care about what happened to "the little people" who suffered by working at those awful jobs? Not even close.

Reep,
I vaguely recall each one of them having a story that indicated they did a bit of manual labor. John mentioned in the early days of South Gate, while working on the church, he hammered him thumb rather than a nail...a folksy tidbit he included in sermons a few times.
Gary claimed he did carpentry work at the SD church for a day.

It bears repeating every now and then:

Posted by: rrmoderator
Date: January 12, 2011 12:28PM

To whom it may concern:

This is not a message board devoted to religious debates, theology and/or philosophy.

Believe whatever you want.

The issue is behavior and how the behavior of groups and/or leaders may hurt people.


Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.

1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

9. The group/leader is always right.

10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.


Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.

1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.

3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

4. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.

5. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.

6. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.

7. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.

8. Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.

9. Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.

10. Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.