From my experience, your perspective is an accurate one, dbc. Thanks for your participation in this forum.

A couple posts from March of 2017:

Posted by: pbxguy
Date: March 20, 2017 12:49AM

One thing I will never miss about TLW is the ingrained exclusivity and elitism.
It is so unfortunate that someone would think the "Little People" were somehow treated less badly than those who participated in the hierarchy.

Everyone was taken advantage of. Everyone. From the preacher who thinks much too much of himself, to the poor sod who throws money he or she really can't afford into a basket in order to support a flim-flam man like Gary and that ilk.

It's too bad that class action suits can't be brought against such organizations.
The largest tragedy is that TLW continues to thrive, to whatever extent. What a shame.

Posted by: changedagain
Date: March 20, 2017 02:19AM

pbxguy wrote:
"The largest tragedy is that TLW continues to thrive, to whatever extent. What a shame."

Yes--headed by a guy that can't, or won't, relate in a civil fashion to most people he encounters...likely has no regrets on the consequences of his vicious treatment of people in TLWF (leaders and 'little people' alike)...and yet has decided that he is an answer to bringing 'Oneness' to major religious groups that have been divided for centuries (mostly) over doctrinal differences. Wow.
If people still under his spell in TLWF could somehow see him for what he is--and perceive what really motivates him--that would be a major step to setting them free. Whether they could cope with this freedom is another matter.

Posts by Changed, Onion, Reep and walkntalkin:

Posted by: changedagain
Date: April 28, 2019 06:02AM

Onion Wrote:
> Some things began to change last year as a result
> of people bravely taking a stand. I understand
> some private communications started the ball
> rolling quite some time before the public
> exposures of October 2018. But many of the
> promises made in October and November are proving
> to be more smoke blown up our collective skirt.

Yeah--I never put much weight on the promises made by former TLWF leaders.
I figured it was just a way to buy them time to come up with a strategy to shield themselves...and, if possible, portray themselves as the real victims. And it appears, so far, to be effective. There are now apparently home meetings where people are praying for them to continue leading their lives. Oh well.

Posted by: walknntalkn
Date: July 14, 2019 07:27AM

I've heard word that Bruce Larson, in addition to taking over what is left of the AMI Jerusalem Center in the wake of Shlomo Hizak's death, has been contacting former members of the San Diego congregation to "set the record straight" and possibly recruit new members for whatever is planned for Hargrave Ministries, to which as Onion previously noted, Larson was appointed Director and CFO in January: [opencorporates.com].

Apparently this has caused some controversy in the newsletters transmitted via the "transition team," with some former congregants coming to Larson's defense.

If anyone has any more information about this or similar "spinoff" attempts in San Diego or elsewhere, please let me know.

I'm also curious as to whether others named in the recent lawsuits have been reaching out to defend their versions of events. I heard (somewhat less reliably) that John Miller was starting to do some evangelizing earlier this year, but I don't know to what extent that has continued following the sexual abuse allegations.

Posted by: Reepicheep
Date: November 12, 2019 09:24AM

Onion wrote:
Just in the past weeks, I have learned some things that may be of interest or a warning of things to come.

As many already know, D. Bruce Larson and Gary Hargrave are currently in Israel conducting a tour with people from CLW and other TLWF churches. I heard that groups of people were told by Gary (and/or Bruce) that Gary Hargrave left TLWF behind as he begins to ascend to his higher calling of a worldwide ministry, taking over in Israel where Shlomo left off when he died a year ago.

Similarities to the moves taken as John Stevens lay dying, Gary and Bruce went to Shlomo's bedside as he lay dying and in pain, and got Bruce placed on the Board in Jerusalem. I predict that Gary Hargrave will concoct and spread a story that before he died, Shlomo asked Gary to take over as he did with John. It was a lie in 1983. There are many witnesses to Shlomo's bedside meeting. It's unfortunate that so many witnesses to John Stevens' bedside have been ostracized, lied about, and kicked out of the church.

Some people still hold Gary as an infallible source of God's word. That is staggering to me. Many ministries in various churches formerly part of TLWF were accused of knowledge of abuse and financial wrongdoing because of their association with leadership. As someone who attended many of those meetings either as a tape editor, legal assistant, or lawyer, I can assure you any meetings held post-1983 were dry and dull and NEVER addressed abuses or scandal of any kind. G&M ALWAYS kept that type of information close to their chests.

So the question to me is if people are mad at former leaders who they THINK might have known something, why is Gary Hargrave given a pass? CLEARLY, HE KNEW EVERYTHING and actively hid the information and actively supported and advocated for the ministries guilty of abuses.

It's unbelievable to me that people are still being tricked by the main and ONLY remaining "foundational" leader of this mess. And he doesn't even want it. This is how he takes responsibility? By dropping out of sight and moving on to his "world-wide" ministry? I bet he's still benefitting financially from all the little people who remain loyal to him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2021 04:27AM by changedagain.

Present stats:

Comments: 11,913
Page views: 2,529,751
Nephilim participating: seems like quite a few :)

Posted by: changedagain
Date: August 27, 2021 09:52AM

Present stats:

Comments: 11,913
Page views: 2,529,751
Nephilim participating: seems like quite a few :)

Wow! So many readers, commenters and deep thinkers. Go Team Neph!

Posted by: dbc
Date: August 20, 2021 09:57PM

Still checking in, Reep. Some perspective and the long view is always helpful. I think we all feel a bit sheepish about being so duped, so naïve, but we were living our lives with passion and it felt so right. The fault is not ours but the ones who led us over the cliff so cynically. We sacrificed family relationships, careers, friendships, and years of our lives and ultimately the truth. Thank God we did woke up. Time to forgive ourselves.

DBC, yes. I beat myself up regularly over so many things. But knowing what I know now, I'd much rather beat up on the con artists who knowingly and purposefully lied to us and used us. I agree, time to forgive ourselves.

Wow! So many readers, commenters and deep thinkers. Go Team Neph!

Yes. I'm betting that God identifies more with Team Neph and Team Jez, than he does with Team VIP. No idea about Team Shitfaced.

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow! So many readers, commenters and deep
> thinkers. Go Team Neph!
>
> Yes. I'm betting that God identifies more with
> Team Neph and Team Jez, than he does with Team
> VIP. No idea about Team Shitfaced.

I think you're right. ; )

TheycalledmeJonah from January of 2018:

Posted by: TheycalledmeJonah
Date: January 05, 2018 06:10AM

Hey All,

I've been a lurker for many months now, and I finally got an account. I'm hoping I can add a bit to the conversation since I have only very recently left the church. In fact, this Sunday will be my first time going to a non-TLWF church on my own accord. I am a young man in my mid 20's who has attended Shiloh for the last 8 years and also attended the church recently opened in North Libery, IA.

I was born into the church in San Diego, and moved to Shiloh when I was 17. I finished up my last year of High School at Midprairie in Wellman, IA right next to Kalona. I've really appreciated being able to read all of your posts here. It really helped open my eyes to things that non of the congregants ever hear - The faults of the leadership.

As I grew up in the Shiloh church from a teenager to an adult, I would spend a lot of my time helping out with maintenance, music, and other work day activities. I would talk to Craig and Phyllis about things in my life and they would give their "input." A lot of the time, I would disagree with their input and end up doing it anyway because I was out here in Iowa alone, away from my family. They were really the closest thing to family I had for a while. If I disagreed with them, I was afraid that I would lose that sort of closeness.

Submitting relationships was really hard for me. I would talk to them if I wanted to take someone out on a date and they would say "Sure go out and have fun, but just stay friends." I would "hang out" with a person for months on end without it ever going anywhere because I would "Keep it just friends" until I lost interest in them and cut it off. That was always super unnatural. Luckily, I met my current girlfriend 9 months ago (when I was still attending Shiloh) and decided not to submit it, and she is amazing!

Also, sorry if this seems like rambling (it is)

This last summer I was already super burnt out with Shiloh because they had things going on at Shiloh constantly and I didn't have time to go do fun stuff that I wanted to do. There has been a lot of work on the Shiloh Cemetery (which is now called the Memorial Park). I'd get asked constantly to work all day on a Saturday and you say yes, because you don't feel the freedom to say no, even when pastors and leaders are constantly saying "Don't do anything if you feel obligated."

I know this complaint may bounce right off you all here because I know that the working conditions that you all experienced was probably much more severe.

I also started to wake up to the fact that I had a lot of differences in opinion than the majority of the church. The church is strictly conservative, and I have primarily democratic beliefs. I laugh every time I remember when Craig said in front of the church,

"Trump announced that today is the national day of prayer. You can say what you want about the guy, but when something happens, he turns to prayer"

Thats such obvious bullshit, I can't believe he fell for that. Obvious PR move.

Also, this last summer camp, Gary H brought a word where he talks about how he is not ready to drink the cup that sits before him. He spoke about how Jesus was able to drink the cup that the Lord put before him, but Gary was not ready. Then at a shabbat the following Friday, everyone was prophecying things like "We prophecy we drink the cup! We are ready to drink the cup!" and I was stunned. I looked around the room and thought "Did anyone listen to anything Gary said? He said he wasn't ready... why are you saying the things that you're saying? Do you even know what you're saying?"

I'm going to keep rambling on...

Another motive for me to not be associated with this church was the thing of control...

I was talking to Craig about a band that I was going to start playing with, and he said "Don't tell me you're gonna go out and become a fucking musician. That's not who you are." This really fucked with me. He obviously didn't want me spending time outside of Shiloh.

Anyway, I moved away from Kalona in October to Coralville, which is closer to my job, and further away from Shiloh. I feel so free, but I'm having to make some new friends because I just don't see the other ones who are in the church as much.

If any of you want to know about anyone or anything in the modern TLWF churches, feel free to ask.


Thanks

TheyCalledMeJonah wrote:
"I laugh every time I remember when Craig said in front of the church, Trump announced that today is the national day of prayer. You can say what you want about the guy, but when something happens, he turns to prayer."

I think a lot of it takes place on the golf course.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2021 11:47PM by changedagain.