changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you again 4generation for this clear and
> powerful post from December of 2019. Hope you are
> doing well.


Posted by: 4generation
Date: December 28, 2019 12:28AM

Welcome Powertrip, so good to see another brazilian posting here.

Unfortunately what you shared with us is not a surprise to me and only shows how deceived we have been for decades in this church.

For me who was born into this cult and spent years serving these "men of God," cleaning their homes, serving food, and supporting them and their bs, it is devastating to know the truth only now.

The worst for me is seeing that there are people still supporting these leaders, as spiritual leaders and literally denying all the evidences and accusations made. To me this is the proof that religion makes people ignorant and unreasonable, because it makes no sense to continue to preach a doctrine of forgiveness that only favors abusive leaders and forgets the victims and those whose lives were destroyed by them.

I'm ready to forgive, that's not the point. But at least tell me what I'm forgiving you for. Because so far you haven't talked about what you regret.

Silas, should I forgive you for the moral, sexual and emotional abuse committed? Or the authoritarianism and control of people's lives through lies, deception and manipulation?

And you Gary, in your letter you said that you regret because you did not hear the voice of the Holy Spirit. But in what you did not hear HIm? In the covering up the crimes committed by the leadership you have established? Or getting involved with Marylin sexually with John's death? Or in creating a system and a doctrine that idolizes man instead of God?

Leaving everything in the field of subjectivity makes us continue to play that game "truth or consequences". The problem is that so far the truth has not been spoken and we have only lived with the consequences of everything that has happened.

My goal here is not to judge or to see them under the bars because of the crimes committed, thats not my role, there is a legal system for that, but my hope is to at least see some maturity and some balls from you to rise up like freaking mans and tell us the damn truth. And please dont give me that "bitterness" bullshit talk, we've heard you for decades and now you want to hide?

I know both of you check this forum everyday, so what do you think about send a public statement telling what happened? Lets take this to the social media instead of hiding from it? Silas can use one of his podcasts to talk about it and explain it to us, to his political friends or his catholics bishops. Or Gary can do it right from Jerusalem with his rabbis.

We all want to move on with our lives and forgive and do everything we need to do to continue in our personal walk with God. But as the Bible said: "the truth will set you free".. here we are waiting for the truth, for the change, to be heard and to stop pretending that these sins, abuses and actions are "normal" and that's okay to live that way. No more, never again, and regarding the abuses and the lies, there is no way to ever forget!

**********************

So powerfully stated. Obviously, neither Gary nor Silas ever explained their failings. Narcissists don't feel that they have anything to apologize for.

4generation wrote:
And you Gary, in your letter you said that you regret because you did not hear the voice of the Holy Spirit. But in what you did not hear Him? In the covering up the crimes committed by the leadership you have established? Or getting involved with Marylin sexually with John's death? Or in creating a system and a doctrine that idolizes man instead of God?

It seems to me that some things should be obvious to anyone with their eyes open, and you don't need to rely on the Holy Spirit to point them out--especially if they have been going on in your midst for decades.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2021 10:59PM by changedagain.

Post by GSchaeff from September 2018:

Posted by: GSchaeff
Date: September 25, 2018 02:01AM

One thing TLW members have heard countless times over the pulpit is that they didn't submit themselves completely last time, or they didn't truly repent, but this time it will work. This time they have a "new understanding of what repentance means,” or a "new revelation of what love is.” I encourage anyone reading this to write down those revelations. Have they changed in 30 years or are they still the same “revelations” Gary was using in the 80s? Is that why you can seemingly pick up a tape and 'have the answer’ to what your problem is with your finances? The answer is in the shared language TLW uses, or "walk talk" as it has been called. Through that language, you can trick your brain into thinking you’ve solved any problem whatsoever.

Rick Ross, the creator of this forum, has identified 10 signs of a potentially unsafe leader, and an additional 10 signs regarding people who follow said leader. I posted a link at the bottom, and I highly recommend reading them all, but three in particular that I see occurring here are:

1. The group/leader is always right.
When Gary says it's a "new day," it's usually accompanied by the expectation that what Gary is about to say is infallible, because people have been praying 24/7 that God is 'about to' to give him an answer 'today' that 'will change this earth if only they can turn their brains off and accept it.'

2. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought.
By calling it "new," Gary is also saying "don't compare anything that didn't work in the past." In this way, people are encouraged to resist thinking critically and comparing what they are about to hear to how it differs from what they heard before.

3. Followers feel they can never be "good enough"
The subtext in calling something a "new revelation" is that if people don't accept the word, the onus is on them and not Gary. It's their problem that they can't allow Gary to change. They've hardened their heart.
In this way, "new revelations" are old news for Gary. Much of what he does is described as "new." Whether it's a word he's about to bring or a Hawaiian shirt he's about to wear, he has molded an audience that responds to that language by guilt tripping themselves over any critical thought they might have about it.

These programmed mannerisms may seem innocent, but everyone who has ever been inside TLW knows that "walk talk" is weird enough to raise eyebrows outside of the church. That's because the language used is programmed to be controlling. It's programmed to make you shut off the part of your brain that would be skeptical that Gary has any desire after 30 years to give up the real power and control that he has over other people's lives.

The link GSchaeff mentioned (hopefully this works):


[culteducation.com]

Post by dbc from November of 2018:

Posted by: dbc
Date: November 02, 2018 08:28PM

Let’s not forget the origins of this group. It was meant to be the restoration of apostolic authority. Inherent in that is a lack of accountability. The only check on abuse in the beginning was created by relationships with other groups. John Stevens’last contact with Bob Mumford whose teachings and organization also reflected submission to shepherding authority meant the beginning of an era when John was surrounded by people who only agreed with him. The finances and church structures also reflected this new testament model meaning local church corporations were not autonomous but responsive the the flow of authority - but the money flowed the other way. Also there was a deliberate decision to charge for the tapes. To pay five dollars in the 1970s for a cassette tape was outrageous. JOHN boasted that the church of the living word was the greatest purchaser of blank tapes in Southern California. That was a lot of money.

After John died, with the reorganization to Hargrave family ministries (now Hargrave Ministries) it seemed like everything was on steroids. The upward flow. Designated relationships. Authority with no accountability. As local churches folded their assets were sold and the money returned to the word for the world fund. Plus tithes plus special offerings for apostolic travel.

Unless the DNA changes there will be no substantive changes at all. And there are no signs of the DNA changing. The seeds of what we’re seeing now were there from the very beginning. I’m sure no one intended it to happen, but when the crystal forms and grows it follows the pattern set out by the basic molecular structure. That’s why “you will know them by their fruit.” The fruit is quite apparent now. It would seem the only reasonable response is to walk away.

Unfortunately, those who post in this forum give testimony to the fact that it’s difficult to leave this group without being damaged goods. There will be a whole lot of hurting going on for quite a while.

Thanks for digging that up and reposting. The damage has not abated. The perpetrators got off scot free. Many gave up the best years of their lives. "There's a place for us ...." we have to move forward and reclaim our essence - but that's so difficult to do as a deliberate act of intention as opposed to a reaction to the tyranny of the past.

dbc wrote:
Thanks for digging that up and reposting. The damage has not abated. The perpetrators got off scot free. Many gave up the best years of their lives. "There's a place for us ...." we have to move forward and reclaim our essence - but that's so difficult to do as a deliberate act of intention as opposed to a reaction to the tyranny of the past.

true

A few posts by typer from October 2019:

Posted by: typer
Date: October 24, 2019 08:01AM

To Denise Waller Laughlin:

My wife came from Iowa to work in the word work in 1976 after she graduated from High School. JRS talked to her and assigned her to the Blix House and then to the Living Word Building in shipping and printing. She had saved $400 which lasted a year. She would like to thank you for making meals at the Living Word Building, which was the only meal she got during the week and nothing on the weekends. You were a life saver for her.

Posted by: typer
Date: October 24, 2019 08:29AM

After my wife's money ran out, she got a job at Singer Sewing company in Panorama City for I think $1.35 / hour (min. wage) and still worked full time at LWB in printing. I worked at the saw mill in Iowa and Shiloh for $80/month from June 1976 to June 1977(also got room and board). My wife and I got engaged by letter; and JRS sent me to LA in June 1977 to LWB to work in the printing. That is where I got to experience the LW Building's wonderful lunches. Fine Line was then created and moved a couple blocks from the LWB, and my wife and I kept going to the LBW for lunches. I think Fine Line paid us $40 a week. The lunches kept us going and were wonderful. We both lived communally, and rode our bikes to work every day from North Hollywood when we got married. The wonderful people like the wallers making lunches were the ones that helped the poor; never anyone in leadership. My wife doesn't ever remember anyone offering her any food during the time she worked at the Blix house.

My wife thinks it might have been Charles' Beach and John Cockas's idea to provide full-time workers lunch at the LWB but not sure. If that is true, then there were some leaders that did care for our souls.

Posted by: typer
Date: October 24, 2019 08:37AM

My wife asked me to convey we are thankful the Lord was and is always taking care of the details of our lives.

Dire circumstances and crap head people don't and can't define who we are.

dbc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for digging that up and reposting. The
> damage has not abated. The perpetrators got off
> scot free. Many gave up the best years of their
> lives. "There's a place for us ...." we have to
> move forward and reclaim our essence - but that's
> so difficult to do as a deliberate act of
> intention as opposed to a reaction to the tyranny
> of the past.

Hey, dbc. Glad to see that you're still here. Love your insights.

Still checking in, Reep. Some perspective and the long view is always helpful. I think we all feel a bit sheepish about being so duped, so naïve, but we were living our lives with passion and it felt so right. The fault is not ours but the ones who led us over the cliff so cynically. We sacrificed family relationships, careers, friendships, and years of our lives and ultimately the truth. Thank God we did woke up. Time to forgive ourselves.