The attitude of many of the ex-members that I have interacted with through the years can more accurately be described as disgusted and appalled by what went on within this organization for decades...once it came to light thanks in great part to these forums (here and on FB). Part of the liberating process in their lives has been coming forward to share their truthful stories, and in the process, face the real possibility of retribution. Much credit goes to them.

Speaking of ridiculous, this story by a troll from June of 2018 was supposed to be about me (I think). I actually chuckled trying to envision being in the "Church of Satan." It seemed like it would be a poor fit for my personality. As for having an epiphany in Costco, I've only (to my knowledge) have had one...and that's a deep regret I waited too long to get into a certain sample line. I eventually got over it...once I started sampling.:)

p.s. couldn't the 'curses and spells' be more accurately applied to the violent intercession within The Walk during the 70's-early 80's, proclaiming the death of the Nephilim (John's wife, Martha) day and night? All that manic effort, and she ended up outliving the Apostle by many years, probably engaging in lots of ballroom dancing. Oh well.


Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: N************d
Date: June 20, 2018 11:14AM

I received the email message below. From a friend.

"After the South Gate church closed, Gary showed me a letter from someone who joined the Church of Satan. His wife had been gossiped about and shunned by the congregation. Last year I saw him at Costco. He told me he formed a coven that put spells and curses on the South Gate congregation who attended Grace Chapel during 1990's. I did some soul searching after that. I knew I wasn't a victim. I made a mistake and chose a false church. I take full responsibility. I was a co-abuser with Marilyn and Gary. I was a "somebody" and I wasn't just following orders. I took pride in removing bad apples. I was part of that system that enabled harm. I don't want to abdicate responsibility for anyway in which I hurt other people like those I hardened myself against and refused sympathy even after I saw them emotionally abused by a pastor, elder, Gary and Marilyn or the congregation. I don't take seriously the brainwashing or mind control theories. I recommend that you read Misunderstanding Cults: Searching for Objectivity in a Controversial Field (2001). It's edited by Benjamin Zablocki and Thomas Robbins. Zablocki admits his brainwashing theory is not testable."

Post by GSchaeff from October 2018:

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: GSchaeff
Date: October 29, 2018 11:01AM

Completely agree, Larry. What we are seeing is a leadership change. That's not enough; what TLW really needs is a culture change.

I want to point out that my description of the Joe Knott case is incorrect. His wife, Wanda Kay, was not being critical of John Robert Stevens. Instead, Knott's lawyer claimed he was deeply disturbed and driven to insanity by a "slow, clever process of mind control." The final straw for Knott seems to have been the decision of the church to recommend that his wife Wanda divorce him and take his children. Here is another article from the Iowa City Press Citizen, dated January 15th, 1982.
[drive.google.com]

Reading these articles, these same themes that were present in the 1970s and 1980s are present today. There is still considerable isolation and group think occurring. Those who speak out are still condemned publicly by shepherds as being "rebellious." It would be easy to think that isolation no longer occurs because the church puts on Christmas truck parades and fireworks shows, but the most important isolation is still heavily enforced. Current members are discouraged from associating with ex-members and those who "are struggling."

One difference today is that social media seems to have bridged this gap. There are now 1.2K comments on Shalom's post. Current members and ex-members are supporting each other and validating each others concerns. Friends who have not spoken in years are now sharing their feelings with each other. The lie that ex-members are simply bitter or a toxic influence is being exposed for what it is, a device to keep people submissive.

I encourage anyone who still has friends in the movement to just listen. Current members have suddenly been forced to question their innermost beliefs. These are core beliefs that have been deeply rooted for decades. I never felt more alone than the day I began asking myself those deep questions about TLWF. It is beautiful to see old friends being there for each other; it gives me hope for the future.

GSchaef wrote:
The lie that ex-members are simply bitter or a toxic influence is being exposed for what it is, a device to keep people submissive.

true

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GSchaef wrote:
> The lie that ex-members are simply bitter or a
> toxic influence is being exposed for what it is, a
> device to keep people submissive.

My line of work for the past 43 years has brought me into thousands of homes, dealing face to face with clients from every walk of life...and to this day I would say that very few of them came anywhere close to the level of orneriness that I encountered within the top leadership of TLWF (an organization that is now allegedly dissolved). So it's a little bit silly when I hear of stories of ex-members being rebuked for being "bitter" or having a "bad spirit" by loyalists.
BTW, I ceased working in late January when I became aware of this coming pandemic.
Everyone stay safe!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2020 12:02AM by changedagain.

I diverted attention from this valuable post by GSchaeff, so I will repost it.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: GSchaeff
Date: October 29, 2018 11:01AM

Completely agree, Larry. What we are seeing is a leadership change. That's not enough; what TLW really needs is a culture change.

I want to point out that my description of the Joe Knott case is incorrect. His wife, Wanda Kay, was not being critical of John Robert Stevens. Instead, Knott's lawyer claimed he was deeply disturbed and driven to insanity by a "slow, clever process of mind control." The final straw for Knott seems to have been the decision of the church to recommend that his wife Wanda divorce him and take his children. Here is another article from the Iowa City Press Citizen, dated January 15th, 1982.
[drive.google.com]

Reading these articles, these same themes that were present in the 1970s and 1980s are present today. There is still considerable isolation and group think occurring. Those who speak out are still condemned publicly by shepherds as being "rebellious." It would be easy to think that isolation no longer occurs because the church puts on Christmas truck parades and fireworks shows, but the most important isolation is still heavily enforced. Current members are discouraged from associating with ex-members and those who "are struggling."

One difference today is that social media seems to have bridged this gap. There are now 1.2K comments on Shalom's post. Current members and ex-members are supporting each other and validating each others concerns. Friends who have not spoken in years are now sharing their feelings with each other. The lie that ex-members are simply bitter or a toxic influence is being exposed for what it is, a device to keep people submissive.

I encourage anyone who still has friends in the movement to just listen. Current members have suddenly been forced to question their innermost beliefs. These are core beliefs that have been deeply rooted for decades. I never felt more alone than the day I began asking myself those deep questions about TLWF. It is beautiful to see old friends being there for each other; it gives me hope for the future.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2020 01:03AM by changedagain.

Does anyone here catch on that the reason this con worked is because the con of religion and gods has been working for so long already? It’s an easy next step to imbibe just a little more BS when so much is so readily accepted in the main stream. I mean most of us were indoctrinated at birth, if not with this crap, a very similar flavor. I don’t think most people go back and ask themselves what they really know about reality and ask themselves the hard questions that come up if they stick with that long enough. Most people will go through life believing, in one form or another, something that they were told as a child and never actually question it... and an even smaller percentage will actually be honest with themselves when the answer comes back inconsistent with what they believed in the first place.
And in case you are wondering, yes, I sincerely disapprove of anyone quoting scripture or praying or exalting the name of a god here on this forum. That’s exactly the first steppingstone on your way to a cult. The only difference is the number of people who’ve been snowed over by the blathering BS. I mean who here has read the Bible cover to cover? Spoiler alert, the stories are that of impoverished illiterates written and recorded and re-written by iron age intellectuals whose sole purpose was to control their subjects. And honestly it seems their mental prowess in that day amounts to that of an 8th grader today. Anything written there is written better elsewhere not only afterwards but pre-dated and contemporaneous literature is actually quite thought provoking.
I understand that people want hope and the thought of death really scares people... But don’t you want to be honest with yourself about what you really know and what you don’t? Don’t you want to be honest with yourself about beliefs that stand a very likely chance of being pure fantasy? I find that when I talk to believers, this is the point where they get off the ride. They’ve had a religious experience that nothing will sway them from... to an extent I understand. But this also stems from the indoctrination and brainwashing of modern day religion. Most will never understand that these aren’t actually religious experiences at all, they’re human experiences they’ve ascribed to their religious beliefs all the while being available to any functioning human with the patience to practice - that is, without belief in a god. Especially the petulant, self-serving, murderous, torturing, child that is the god of Abraham.

Changed: Great post from GSchaeff.

"Current members have suddenly been forced to question their innermost beliefs. These are core beliefs that have been deeply rooted for decades. I never felt more alone than the day I began asking myself those deep questions about TLWF. It is beautiful to see old friends being there for each other; it gives me hope for the future."

As we all know, asking those questions is a very painful process. But it is the beginning of hope.

Blowout,

I tend to agree with your opinion about religion. I still teeter on the edge of non-religion while yet holding a kernal of faith. I will probably never attend a church again. But I do believe that it is possible to have a personal belief system that is private and does not seek to convince others. To me, that is personal, and not a step towards cult mentality.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2020 10:05PM by Reepicheep.

B L O W


Your assessment addresses the street-cred of religion in general, which has been pointed out by some as the opiate of the people.  For those who subscribe to Christianity specifically (fill in the appropriate schism), one must accept from the start the authority of the Bible (fill in the appropriate version/translation).

Once one travels down this road, unquestioning obedience is inferred.  JRS preached from the pulpit warning NOT to attend seminary, as one would come out an unbeliever.  This is because one would discover the origins of both the religion and it's text;  'canonization' by a Roman emperor (Constantine), who wished to consolidate his power three centuries after stories regarding certain events were told, retold, and heavily embellished in order to gain converts.  This continues to this day.

Just to be fair, the same applies to Judaism and Islam, relatives of Christianity.  It is important to point out that Jesus did not endorse Judaism, and did not teach anything that resembles the monstrosity Christianity is today.  Just because a religion has been 'normalized' does not make it normal.  It is simply a narrative, vigorously promoted by accolades, who believe their way must be the only way, or why else would they be adherents.

None of this takes away anything from actual SPIRITUAL experiences, which many times fall outside the limited parameters defined by any religion.  These oftentimes are experiences framed in LOVE, JOY & PEACE, and are not subject to 'public opinion'.  In the end, these are the only ones that matter, and come with the realization that each must walk their own path wherever that may lead.

Jesus' take on our experience was best described in the Prodigal Parable, where our desire for experiences apart from HEAVEN landed us in a world of our own making (aptly described as a 'misadventure').  Once one finally realizes this is no longer desirable, a change of course is the only option.

The only way out of our own version of hell is back to HEAVEN.