OH! And Scott McDonald was fired.

No mention of who’s taking over? Seems too tidy. Like a big bluff. To get the sheep to beg them to not resign.

I think the effort to get people to beg them to stay is right on.

We don't have enough details yet.

I want to know the difference between resigning and stepping down. I would assume resigning means out, gone, no involvement.

Stepping down probably means staying in the fellowship as a congregant which is a slippery slope in my opinion. People are programmed to hang on every word spoken by these people and that influence and mind control won't automatically end with just a change of title.

The information came in a short text during the service and we need confirmation and a LOT of details. Also - legal responsibility does not go away retroactively. The acts done in the past won't disappear and those involved will still be held responsible no matter what their title is.

My first thought to the news of some of TLWF leadership resigning is who will get the assets? Will they be returned to those who have spent decades of their lives contributing finances and labor to the local churches, or will they be siphoned off to a few for a luxury retirement? Also, what about those who have given their lives to “kingdom businesses” with nothing to show for it, while a few prospered? They should not forget, while they were busy proclaiming judgement on the world, and on those who disagreed with them - something that was never in God’s heart in the first place - what He really did say. “So I will come near to you for judgment. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers, and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive aliens of justice, but do not fear me,” says the Lord Almighty.” Those things really do matter and should be taken seriously as they decide how they are going to move forward in the future.

For any new visitors to this forum, one thought I'd like to dispel is that this type of abuse being uncovered is unique to R Holbrook, or that it has not been prevalent in TLW from the very beginning. If anything, R Holbrook had a textbook example of sexual exploitation in his stepfather, JRS. There are numerous alleged accounts on this forum of JRS pervasively abusing the trust and devotion his congregants placed in him by influencing young women to have sexual affairs with him.

John's extremely selfish and abusive behavior likely dates back as far as 1967, when romantic letters exchanged between him and a deacon's wife corroborated claims that they were intimately involved. This is widely believed to have contributed to "the split of 1967" as documented in Woodrow Nichol's book on TLW. It's presumed that those letters have been destroyed, as TLWF has been known to do (Example: [thelivingwordfellowshipthewholetruth.org])

There is also considerable evidence that John began an affair with Marilyn Cleland in the 1960s. This would have been approximately 10 years before he finally divorced Martha Stevens, with whom he had two daughters.

Around 1975, John allegedly fathered a child with another Blix girl. There are numerous instances on this forum of posters individually corroborating this claim.

There are at least three other women JRS is believed to have had affairs with in the 1960s and 70s. There are dozens of accounts of him silencing individuals who would speak up about leaders who preyed on congregants.

These accounts are likely a surprise to many, but in the wake of recently discovering how easily this type of behavior from R Holbrook was covered up by numerous leaders for over two decades, it begs the question as to how accurate these other accounts were. Certainly they deserve a better answer than, "Don't ask those questions," or "You should repent for not having a revelation of John."

We know for certain that John Robert Stevens arranged numerous marriages between his congregants, consolidated millions of dollars worth of church assets solely under his name, dined almost exclusively at fancy restaurants with multiple credit cards from Kingdom Businesses, was involved in a silver mine ponzi scheme, and, above all, JRS preached a toxic message of total submission and unquestioning loyalty to abusive deacons whom he placed over the lives of others. He demanded this of his congregants as they abandoned their jobs, joined communal homes, moved across the country, worked 80-hour weeks performing unskilled manual labor, and donated almost all of their earnings to the church. It's time that we stop deifying JRS and apply a little more scrutiny to what his true motivations often were: vanity and greed at the expense of those who trusted him.

Their removals should also include restraining orders keeping all of them at least 100 yards away from any TLW facility.

The 'private residences' should be thoroughly investigated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2018 03:29AM by kBOY.

Cloudwatcher Wrote:

> Gary Hargrave is a liar. He will do anything to
> save his ass. He never gave a shit about you and
> neither did Marilyn.

That's why I want learn more of the specifics about what it actually means that he and other key ministries are 'resigning.' Will they still be involved in church matters, even though they have resigned their positions? Do any of them still have control/influence over remaining church assets? Is Hargrave Family ministries still operational, and if so, what the hell is it doing? Have they acknowledged specifically how they failed the fellowship...or even admitted they were a problem? As someone speculated, perhaps this move is cosmetic, and they're hoping for outcry from congregation asking them to return.
Yeah, I'm cynical. I guess I'm still conditioned by the long, sordid history of deceit and manipulation in TLWF leadership.
p.s. I will not be getting on my face today crying to God to make me open. That's a non-starter. If I get on my face crying out to God, it will be about why the Dodgers are down 3-1 against the Red Sox. Just being honest.

Has anybody looked at FB lately? There are reports that Gary is saying that this is all HIS idea! He started the investigation. So all who believe that stand on your head right now.

The only appropriate outcry from the congregation should be for them to own up to their responsibility, face the (legal/financial) consequences, leave immediately and never return.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2018 04:55AM by kBOY.

Heads up! Just as a precaution start print screening Shalom’s thread. My Facebook account was hacked!