It has been Gary’s MO to direct the activities of TLWF and then remove middle management to take the fall when obviously wrong behavior has come to light, instead of taking personal responsibility himself. To suggest that he had no knowledge of Rick’s activities – after four marriages – is absurd. I agree with onion that those who allowed Rick to continue in this type of behavior, are also responsible. I would suspect Rick had dirt on TLWF leadership or they would have never allowed him to continue in ministry. In most church organizations, fallen leaders seldom recover after one indiscretion, much less four - plus those affairs that have been alluded to, but not made public. TLWF is finally getting to be like the Catholic hierarchy they so admire after all - and experiencing the same problems.

Now the battle over money begins – as in a divorce - and I suspect the true colors of those involved will come to light – unless all this was worked out prior to publicaly banishing Rick. I would also be curious to know if there is a legal clause or strategy that would cause Rick to lose everything for moral indiscretions – a great card for Gary to play at this time. What would be really nice is if the local churches, whose finances and labor built the facilities, could gain local ownership of them - as would be the case in a nondenominational structure. There are oversight bodies that provide protection for congregants in nondenominational churches - my church belongs to one. The other side of the coin will become apparent when a few with unethical motives can legally take the money and run without any oversight.

Good and accurate post, Larry.
Yes, it will be interesting to see if this next phase involves a battle between Gary and Rick--both motivated by self-interest--or if they have worked something out where they can each get through this unscathed. Both have mastered the art of placing blame on their victims and escaping accountability, so this present challenge should be interesting. I've learned never to underestimate the deviousness of TLWF leadership--so we'll see.

Apparently, there is a letter from Rick and Lorena that will be read aloud to each of the churches still in the fellowship. It's a sorrowful apology for hurting people and contains the statement that they resigned permanently from the fellowship.

As soon as I heard about this letter my skepticism kicked into overdrive. Before I heard of the letter I had a wait and see, "could it be true?" attitude that I now think was overly optimistic.

Knowing that the statement was made that people still in TLWF would continue having contact with Rick, knowing that Steve Seboldt will be in charge of TLW, it's all too convenient for Rick to continue to exert control. Steve Seboldt has always been Rick's puppet and there is no reason to think that will change.

My Hope: People who have been staying in TLWF for whatever reason will finally realize they have been horribly duped all these years and will decide to leave. I want to see more recent victims of Rick's sexual misconduct come forward and take a stand. It's time (or past time).

Things are still percolating. Protests about sending Scott McDonald (Rick's apparent accomplice) and his wife to Grants Pass are already being generated.

We shall see....

Onion Wrote:

> My Hope: People who have been staying in TLWF for
> whatever reason will finally realize they have
> been horribly duped all these years and will
> decide to leave. I want to see more recent
> victims of Rick's sexual misconduct come forward
> and take a stand. It's time (or past time).
>
> Things are still percolating. Protests about
> sending Scott McDonald (Rick's apparent
> accomplice) and his wife to Grants Pass are
> already being generated.

Good. It appears (for now) this thing is a whitewash--all the perks remain with little accountability. The fellowship should demand better. If that doesn't materialize, now is as good a time as any for members to make their exit. Enough games.

I suppose Gary will next bring a series of sermons on forgiveness. He’ll tell Rick’s victims to drop their bitterness and forgive Rick. Any of you reading this that were abused by Rick, I’d think twice before forgiving Rick. I think he needs to earn it. In some cases, he shouldn’t ever be forgiven.

puddington Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I suppose Gary will next bring a series of sermons
> on forgiveness. He’ll tell Rick’s victims to drop
> their bitterness and forgive Rick. Any of you
> reading this that were abused by Rick, I’d think
> twice before forgiving Rick. I think he needs to
> earn it. In some cases, he shouldn’t ever be
> forgiven.

Yeah, let him at least publicly own up to what he has done, before the people are required to forgive him and move on. What is the probability of that happening? Perhaps this will be the one time in TLWF history when a major scandal involving leadership doesn't result in another heavy burden being placed upon the rank and file. But as it has often been said here by the vets--don't hold your breath.

The apology letter from R&L was so watered down that I think a lot of people feel like there has not been any genuine remorse. I keep thinking about people who say they're sorry when they really are only sorry they got caught.

Think about it. If Rick is truly going to be uninvolved (see below) then he has lost his "prey herd" of young women at all the churches he frequented, summer camps, Christmas trucks, etc.; he has lost his nonstop, limitless financing of all his little projects as well as an endless stream of top-shelf alcohol, and the many projects he can put his name to when really the talent has always been supplied by volunteers Rick uses and throws out.

As for Rick being uninvolved, where is the credibility for that idea when those that have been Rick's robots for DECADES are still in places of authority and control (most specifically Steve Seboldt and Scott McDonald). I've been told that Scott routinely gets involved in Rick's sexual predator conduct even if the only thing he touches is himself. He speaks it and watches Rick commit the assaults on many different levels according to many reports. I don't know so much about Steve's involvement in the assault stuff but there has never been a more compliant slave for Rick's use than Steve. EVERYone knows this and talks about it and it is my observation too.

The people at TLW who are loving and dedicated (albeit duped) people are still going to suffer under this so-called change in the regime because how can they trust what is being left in Rick's place? How can they trust Rick is really gone?

The people at TLW and probably the entire TLWF need to see some sincerity in conduct now. If the leadership would just follow their own lead and discipline and rebuke and humiliate Rick for his sexual abuse including what I have been told includes sex abuse of minors (CRIME) at least as intensely as they have dished out hatefulness to other ministers who were actually GIVEN for 20 to 40 years in that thing and all they ever did wrong was something invisible that only the leadership could see in their self-described wisdom.

If the leadership even has the capacity to step back and see what it feels like to have your entire life controlled by other people - they need to do that. Then they need to imagine that the people controlling them are sexual predators, stealing money for personal gain, hiding secret after secret after secret for DECADES - what would they then imagine is the right course of action?

They certainly haven't even begun to take appropriate action. If it has just been a small start then the follow up needs to start now, today, and more information has to be publicized so people can have trust again. And then maybe there could even be some respect for fellow human beings in TLWF. What a concept.

HOLY CRAPOLY PEOPLE: I looked at a post for a new group on this forum and EVERYTHING this post says could apply to us, to other elements of TLWF, or contains good leads for moving forward. WOW. The writer even uses my favorite quote at the end.

PLEASE READ!


-----------------------

The writer is MastersReject.

For those of us who are survivors of John MacArthur's The Master's University and Seminary, now is the time to act! Master's has been placed on accreditation probation by WASC. (See documents listed under Commission Actions: wscuc.org/institutions/masters-university-and-seminary ). This is a tremendous blow to the credibility of the school and John MacArthur. The school has been cited for shady financial dealings (some involving MacArthur's son in law), a culture of fear and intimidation, questionable academic practices, an ineffective board full of MacArthur's yes men, and other issues.

Those of us who were students saw that culture of fear and intimidation through the bullying tactics encouraged and commanded by the Student Life Department and enforced by SLS. Were you constantly confronted for your perceived sins, for the "appearance of evil"? Were you put under the microscope? Did you report sexual harassment, misconduct, or crimes to Student Life and have your case mishandled? Did you report issues of a non-sexual nature and have your case mishandled? Were you branded a liar or "in sin" when you "rebelled" against their authority?

You no longer have to remain silent. You have many avenues to let your voice be heard:

1) WASC is always taking Complaints and Third Party Comments. Fill out the following form and email to wscuc@wscuc.org and thawley@wscuc.org. You can choose to remain ANONYMOUS. You do not have to provide proof. Even if WASC does nothing, your comments will remain in the school's file to be dredged up every time WASC reviews the school. At the very least, it will give future WASC teams an idea of what red flags to watch for.

[www.wscuc.org]

2) If you were harassed by Student Life and SLS, you may have a Clery Act violation, ESPECIALLY if you were harassed regarding sexual issues. This is NOT limited to just mishandled rape and sexual misconduct cases. This includes harassment over sexual orientation (Master's can believe what they want, Master's can expel you, but Master's cannot harass you), gender norms (i.e. girls shouldn't like violent movies and video games, girls shouldn't wear pants, men shouldn't be administrative assistants, etc), sexual health preferences (i.e. tampons, birth control, hormone treatments, etc), and body autonomy (i.e. what toiletries you use, what you eat, when you sleep, what clothes you wear, how you style your hair, choices you make for your body, etc). If you are not sure, contact the U.S. Department of Education. The Philadelphia School Participation Team of the U.S. Department of Education has the primary responsibility for overseeing Clery Act compliance by institutions. If you are interested in pursuing your complaint further, you can contact Jim Moore at 215-656-8542 or clerycomplaints@ed.gov. Complaints can be made ANONYMOUSLY. You do not need to provide proof to start an investigation.

3) If you would like to be part of a potential lawsuit against Master's, contact Owen Patterson Owen. Staycee Gordon is the primary person to contact to tell your story. The firm is looking for victims or witnesses of mishandled rape and sexual abuse cases, cases of harassment by Student Life/SLS and administration, and unlawful termination and hostile work environment for employees, etc. Call 661-799-3399 or email staycee@owenpatterson.com. You do not need proof at this stage. Your story may be all that is required for corroboration. The law firm is only at the information gathering stage. You do not have to make any huge decisions, you are not committing yourself to doing anything by just giving them a call and talking.

4) If you would like to be part of an in-depth news article regarding Master's, contact The Chronicle of Higher Education to contribute your experience and/or any evidence you may have (not required) to Eric Kelderman, senior reporter at 202-466-1017 or Eric.Kelderman@chronicle.com. You may remain ANONYMOUS.

If you saw something, say something. If you were a victim, let your voice be heard. The shame is not on you, but that abusive school! Let our actions speak louder than words, be people OF our word, and not merely speak the words of supporters and advocates, but DO what we can -- report, Report, REPORT. You aren't alone. We can't all be lying. Where there's smoke, there's fire. Let us corroborate and support each other. Now is the time, while the iron is hot.

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke

------------------------------

The more you read about these various cult groups, the more you realize how similar they are. That is why I would encourage those on this thread to take advantage of the material Rick Ross has suggested. At first you will think that nobody could possibly understand what you have been through with TLWF. Once you become familiar with about 50 of these groups, you will definitely go through a paradigm shift regarding TLWF that will be an eye opener and it will strengthen your will to break free.

As far as the removal of Rick, I would also keep a close eye on Gary. Rick did not make himself an overseer, Gary and Marilyn did. That was in spite of Rick’s track record. If I was hearing stories about Rick out in Palmer Lake and I’m sure Gary was familiar with what was going on with his own step-son, since he was the one personally disciplining him. As in the case of the Catholics, you don’t place kids under the supervision of a child molester unless you also are molesting children yourself and are protecting a culture. Sending a priest to a new parish to molest other kids is just sick. Both the priest and the overseer are to blame. That is not the conduct of someone that is trying to protect people from harm, but that of looking out to protect one’s personal interest and power by transferring guilt to a scapegoat – even if the scapegoat is guilty.

I agree with you Larry. I have been watching all that has been going on recently with Rick. I have watched it before. I wished in the past that “THIS WOULD BE IT!” Accountability and truth. It never was and sadly don’t think it will be now. I too think that Gary needs to take full responsibility for all that has gone on. COME ON! There is no way he couldn’t have known.
I have been slightly hopeful that this could be it but unfortunately I am looking to see how in the heck they will still continue to spin it. :(