FROMSOUTHCHICAGO, I'm glad you asked about Marilyn's funeral because it's something I have thought of posting about on here for some time. I was there and it was very, very odd. One, we had to pay to attend. No kidding. We were told we had to register if we wanted to attend the funeral, and pay $40 per person to "cover costs". I found this extremely bizarre and supremely tacky. Who charges people to attend a funeral?? Especially considering the Hargraves have a ton of money.

Two, besides Marilyn's immediate family (Rick, Marti, Gary, and granddaughter Kaylin) the leaders/shepherds from all of the churches were a part of the processional and recessional in the church, and then at the graveside they had all of the chairs surrounding the immediate area cordoned off. Only VIP were allowed to sit in the chairs, and they had someone placed at the entrance of this sectioned off area to allow or disallow people to sit in the seats. Even though there were a ton of empty seats, the rest of us minions were given standing room only OUTSIDE of the roped off area. In typical TLWF fashion it was very exclusive. It felt very uncomfortable.

Three, Rick did a "Twenty-One Gun Salute" for Marilyn with fire crackers (you know the ones that just make a loud BOOM), simulating what they do for members of the Military who pass on. I was deeply offended by it, because in my opinion that is reserved only for those who have served in the Armed Forces. It seemed highly inappropriate to me and came off very awkward.

Four, at the reception everyone was completely shitfaced. I have not seen so many people wasted at a church function before. I mean, in LA it's kind of par for the course to see people drunk at functions, but this was just over the top. It was all just very, very strange in every regard.

You asked about Marti. She was kicked out of the church for being gay. Apparently it's okay for Rick to have four extra-marital affairs and exhibit grossly inappropriate behavior towards women and STILL be in leadership, but it's not okay to be gay. A huge double standard.

fromsouthchicago Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Changedagain(): You have a (Central European)
> Jewish grandparent. (At least that would seem to
> be the simplest explanation.) Whether that person
> was a part of the Jewish community is another
> thing. Interesting.
>
> TheycallmeJonah(): Thank you for the directions. I
> took a look via Google Earth and what I saw was as
> you described.
>
> Since you said that you were at Marilyn's funeral,
> I have a few questions about it. And I'll add my
> reasons for asking.
>
> 1. Google Earth shows something being constructed
> near the water tower. Is that the memorial park?
>
> 2. What was the funeral like? I ask because my
> parents attended John S. and Marilyn's wedding.
> They said that it was a very lively and noisy
> affair -- something where the people of the cult
> showed their emotions full-on. I'm wondering if
> the funeral had a TLWF twist to it? And if it did,
> what was it?
>
> 3. What was Marilyn's cause of death? Doing some
> research it took me a while to figure out the
> Marilyn was actually dead. A lot of the material I
> was looking at, on the many of the TLWF related
> websites/pages suggested that Marilyn continued to
> be an "is" as opposed to a "was." It took a while
> and some digging to finally confirm that yes
> indeed she was gone.
>
> 4. Did they do the same thing when Marilyn died as
> they did when John Stevens died? I won't go into
> the details. (Marilyn's and my Uncle Bob gave me
> the complete story on what happened. Yuck!) Nor do
> you or anyone else need to provide me with
> details. A simple yes or no will suffice. Thank
> you.
>
> 5. Did they say Kaddish at her funeral? I ask this
> because of the apparent connection TLWF makes with
> Judaism and Jewish practices.
>
> Some questions for anyone who would like to
> chime-in ...
>
> -- I've been reading some strongly worded comments
> about Rick Holbrook, my cousin once removed. Would
> anyone be willing to disclose what's going on with
> this guy?
>
> -- What about Marilyn's daughter? If memory serves
> me correctly, her name is Marty. A quick look
> around suggests to me that she's not involved. Is
> that true?
>
> Thanks in advance to any answers you can provide.
>
>
> Next post I'll tell a few stories from the "early
> times."

reveal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FROMSOUTHCHICAGO, I'm glad you asked about
> Marilyn's funeral because it's something I have
> thought of posting about on here for some time. I
> was there and it was very, very odd. One, we had
> to pay to attend. No kidding. We were told we had
> to register if we wanted to attend the funeral,
> and pay $40 per person to "cover costs". I found
> this extremely bizarre and supremely tacky. Who
> charges people to attend a funeral?? Especially
> considering the Hargraves have a ton of money.
>
> Two, besides Marilyn's immediate family (Rick,
> Marti, Gary, and granddaughter Kaylin) the
> leaders/shepherds from all of the churches were a
> part of the processional and recessional in the
> church, and then at the graveside they had all of
> the chairs surrounding the immediate area cordoned
> off. Only VIP were allowed to sit in the chairs,
> and they had someone placed at the entrance of
> this sectioned off area to allow or disallow
> people to sit in the seats. Even though there were
> a ton of empty seats, the rest of us minions were
> given standing room only OUTSIDE of the roped off
> area. In typical TLWF fashion it was very
> exclusive. It felt very uncomfortable.
>
> Three, Rick did a "Twenty-One Gun Salute" for
> Marilyn with fire crackers (you know the ones that
> just make a loud BOOM), simulating what they do
> for members of the Military who pass on. I was
> deeply offended by it, because in my opinion that
> is reserved only for those who have served in the
> Armed Forces. It seemed highly inappropriate to me
> and came off very awkward.
>
> Four, at the reception everyone was completely
> shitfaced. I have not seen so many people wasted
> at a church function before. I mean, in LA it's
> kind of par for the course to see people drunk at
> functions, but this was just over the top. It was
> all just very, very strange in every regard.
>
> You asked about Marti. She was kicked out of the
> church for being gay. Apparently it's okay for
> Rick to have four extra-marital affairs and
> exhibit grossly inappropriate behavior towards
> women and STILL be in leadership, but it's not
> okay to be gay. A huge double standard.

Nauseating. It's hard to imagine an organization more obsessed with hierarchy and privilege than this one. But according to the LW message Kboy shared, that day is over (not).
Of course, I'm one to talk. I've been wearing a black robe and telling neighbors that I am an honorary justice of the Supreme Court. Position thinking is hard to shake ;)

kBOY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We Must Break ... A ...
> Community
> October 13, 2018 - by Gary Hargrave
>
> [garyhargrave.com]
>
>
> ". . . as we leave... we are under the
> influence ...He will ... give us ...spirits ... (TLW leadership)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2018 06:18AM by Cloudwatcher.

Now it makes sense.

Cloudwatcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kBOY Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > We Must Break In To Become A Prophetic
> > Community
> > October 13, 2018 - by Gary Hargrave
> >
> >
> [garyhargrave.com]
> >
> > * * *
> >
> > ". . . as we leave... we are under the
> > influence ...He will ... give us ...spirits
> ... (TLW leadership)

A pathetic community

Having spent my decades of service previous to the passing of MH, and thus missing the opportunity to pay $40 to stand in the outskirts to witness such a spectacle, I can only shake my head at how bizarre the whole production must been for many a fine folk who were there, and that this degree of insanity was STILL sane enough for them to continue to stick around.

When the frog is boiled s l o w l y, the frog ends up getting boiled.

* * *

Having been around for the passing of JRS, but not privy to all those sordid details, I would very much like to hear what FROMsouthCHICAGO was told about that spectacle. I think the insanity ratcheted up a notch at that phase of the program, but the details were carefully kept from the rank and file in order to prevent a mass exodus.

kBOY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Having been around for the passing of JRS,
> but not privy to all those sordid details, I would
> very much like to hear what
> FROMsouthCHICAGO was told about that
> spectacle.

Ok, if you're really interested. And by the way many of the details that you're about the read were documented in People Magazine in an article about one of the Hollywood followers of JRS. The only difference between what I was told and what the magazine article reported was the time ... it was 6 months in the article, my uncle said it was 3 months. I tend to believe my uncle. When I get into the story, you'll understand why I wanted to point out this difference in the reporting before I start the story.

Here's the story I was told. (I think the basics of this are true, but I can believe that there specific facts that are not correct. I got this third hand, but again the story I heard was similar to the story in People.)

Family members kept telling me that Brother Stevens (the name for him that I kept hearing) made numerous suggestions in various ways that he was the reincarnation of Jesus. So once he died at his home in his bed, well ... they just closed the door to his room and waited for his resurrection.

And they waited according to my uncle for three months before they finally came around to the idea that the rotting corpse of JRS wasn't going to rise. (People Mag. article reported 6 months.) You can say that he "rose up" but not quite in the way that his followers had expected. According to my uncle there were complaints from the neighbors about the terrible smell. (Honestly, I don't know if that's true, but it makes a gruesome story even more gruesome ... Happy Halloween. Also, I have no idea where John and Marilyn were living at the time. So I have no idea about how far apart the residences were separated, etc.)

I can't tell you if there was a funeral for JRS. If there was one, no one I know in my family outside of cousin Marilyn and Aunt Bessie would have attended it. Or at least they didn't tell me and I didn't ask. And I didn't find out about this incident until many years after it happened.

So that's it. That's all I have on this. I was wondering if they decided to deal with Marilyn's death in the same way. I doubt it, but I am curious.

----

MH Funeral ...

Say what? Paying $40 to attend a funeral? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot! And to add insult to injury, being in a roped off area and required to stand when there was seating available? Indeed, that does seem to be a real TLWF twist on a funeral. The part about the people getting completely toasted at the reception adds another twist. But that actually seems normal in comparison to the $40 entrance fee, etc.

fromsouthchicago Wrote:

> MH Funeral ...
>
> Say what? Paying $40 to attend a funeral? Whiskey
> Tango Foxtrot! And to add insult to injury, being
> in a roped off area and required to stand when
> there was seating available? Indeed, that does
> seem to be a real TLWF twist on a funeral. The
> part about the people getting completely toasted
> at the reception adds another twist. But that
> actually seems normal in comparison to the $40
> entrance fee, etc.

This is the type of behavior many of us endured while serving 'Christ in the Flesh.' Regaining sanity has been no easy feat. Sharing our thoughts and experiences through the years in this forum has been immensely helpful.
BTW, you asked the cause of Marilyn's death. I was told by a former member of Apco (apostolic company, although some refer to it as alcoholic company) that it was cancer...can't recall the specifics. If anyone here knows, please come forward.
Oh...and as far as Marilyn being referred to in the present tense after she passed, that might be due to the fact that Gary claimed she communicated to him from the 'cloud of witnesses.' Perhaps a subject for another day :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2018 05:55AM by changedagain.

I loved hearing the details on what you heard about JRS' death and events after.

Since I was there, I can give you my personal knowledge as to the details.

JRS had prostate cancer and had known that for a couple of years before he died. Why he never sought medical care in the normal medical setting is something I couldn't answer then and don't know now.

In 1982 as he began feeling the effects of his illness, JRS held a couple of services and one I am still particularly grateful to him for. He had everyone come to CLW for "freeing the spirits." He took all restraints and bonds he had placed on peoples' spirits, off of them. He said he didn't want to die while people still had things on their spirits that he had put there (good motive) because he didn't think anyone else would have enough authority to counteract what he had done in his authority (ego motive).

As JRS started having some visible signs of illness he didn't want anyone from the churches to know about it or see him. I have no comment on that because it was his decision and certainly his right. I was working as the personal assistant and accountant for both JRS and Marilyn at the time and my office was at the Blix House. I handled everything that needed a check or credit card and probably 90% of the phone calls.

JRS would have certain people come over - Dr. Bob Barton provided medical care. People made meals and healthy juices, etc. He would have me over to discuss work and finances. I would get called to come over any time someone knocked at their front door (they lived at 11117 Kling St., N. Hollywood). I would answer the door and send whoever was there down the road. Sometimes it was terribly hard like the evening everyone at South Gate was just so worried about JRS that the whole bunch came to JRS' house to bless him - and I had to turn them away. John was still functioning and handled it how he wanted it handled.

In late 1982, definitely in January of 1983, JRS was very ill and during that time he pretty much stopped functioning. By this time there was a regular crew that would go to the house to help - even to help him get around. He was in and out of consciousness but didn't recognize many people. He was in a lot of pain - it was awful. I don't know if any pain meds were ever given to him. I know he didn't want any when he was still able to dictate his wishes.

In March of 1983 JRS went into a coma. He had round the clock people caring for him - always 2 guys during the night in case he needed to be lifted or anything. Most of the regular crew slept on the floor at his house or over at Blix. There was a storage shed in the middle yard between Blix and Kling that we had turned into a meeting room and round the clock prayer was going on there.

My husband, Dan (now my ex) and I lived right down the street and slept at home some of the time although usually we slept on the floor at JRS'. On the morning of June 4, 1983 very early, we got the call that it looked like JRS was taking his last breaths. I went to walk in the bedroom where JRS lay (it was right around 6:05 a.m.) and I heard him gasp and I heard Marilyn kind of yell (sorrowful sound) and then I was rushed out of the room. JRS had just breathed his last breath.

Plans for his body began immediately. First and foremost I was enlisted to start making calls to let people know JRS had died. I was allowed to have someone help me after it became clear it was going to take so much time to make the calls. I read a statement prepared by the family with Gary's help.

Bob Barton was in charge of the body and had it taken to the mortuary to be embalmed. Bob stayed with the body during the embalming process. I went with the family to pick out and pay for the casket. JRS was brought home to Kling for the process that was followed for about the next 3 days. The very first day it was only family around him but various ones who had been close were invited to place items in the casket with JRS. Bob McClane brought the first Bible JRS had ever given him - it was filled with notes in JRS' handwriting and Bob's. John Miller brought something. I can't remember who else.

Then there was an open house at Kling for 2 full days. The lines to walk through the house were longer than for the first Star Wars. People were to walk thru and pay respects at the coffin (which had now been permanently sealed for Marilyn by my husband) where Marilyn and different members of the family would greet them and hear their stories and receive various gifts such as a rose bush that was a hybrid creation named in honor of JRS.

By the time the visiting was over, yes you could detect an odor. It wasn't very strong and I doubt any neighbors could have smelled anything. Within the next day or two the casket was taken to Valhalla Mortuary in North Hollywood/Burbank area where it was sealed in a vault. It was a regular, normal vault where people are buried.

The reason the casket wasn't taken right away to Shiloh was because there were lawsuits pending and Marilyn didn't want to be served with a subpoena for her deposition, etc. The funeral at Shiloh took place on 9-25-1983 and the casket was flown to Iowa on a plane (I made the reservations myself) and a mortuary picked up the casket at the airport and took care of placing the casket in the ground prior to people getting there for the memorial.

A lot of changes took place immediately. For me, this was one of those times where I practically lived with Marilyn 24/7 both for work and helping her personally and as of her family gathering at Shiloh, I turned into a potato, an invisible one. It was odd and hurtful but as we all learned to do, I rolled with the punches.

The strangeness related to the plans for resurrection started occurring right away - especially when Marilyn and Gary got together. The focus was yes, resurrecting JRS but no one thought he would come back in his old body so there was a lot of prayer that he return. Gary and Marilyn said they were going to have a baby and that baby would be JRS' return. I don't know how open they were with this plan but of course it never happened.

When Rick and Maria had Kaylin, Rick came up to me and told me Kaylin was JRS who had come back. I made a smart ass remark about being glad he was a woman this time - I didn't take Rick seriously. But now as I've heard stories of Rick promising Kaylin that "All this will be yours someday," I wonder if he meant it. Now that Rick and Lorena have a son, what's your guess on who they are going to masquerade as JRS?

If anyone wants any additional detail, let me know.

Thanks to both FROMsouthCHICAGO, and especially ONION, for providing all the background information regarding the JRS transitional proceedings.

ONION, please feel free to include any other pertinent details surrounding this whole time, especially in the light of how exaggerated the story became by the time it reached the ears of FROMsouthCHICAGO and the pages of People Magazine.

We were stationed at a remote TLW outpost before, during and after all these events, and in the light of all the sh*t that hit the fan shortly thereafter, we didn't have an opportunity to get the straight scoop from anyone close to the situation.