Some pages back, I wrote how an especially savvy cult leader can
rule through mere hints.

Quote


[forum.culteducation.com]

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: corboy
Date: December 17, 2017 04:33PM

In the early stages of training a hunting dog you have to give lots of explicit instructions.

Once the dog is thoroughly trained and knows his or her master, only small signals are needed


In a well run cult, things reach a point where the leader does not need
to give explicit orders.

All he or she need do is drop hints.

Just now, ten days after writing that, I found this discussion
about an entirely different group than TLWF.

Quote

Jasun Horsley
APRIL 10, 2017 AT 1:54 PM REPLY
Critical faculties are, IMO, insufficient protection when it comes to charismatic leaders skilled in finding and pulling emotional/energetic triggers, patterns of abandonment and trauma and imprinting us with their own words and presence while in that raw state. It is like accelerated transference and there’s no rational protection against it if you are susceptible (a good match for the teacher) and unless you are forewarned.

cynicalseeker
APRIL 10, 2017 AT 7:06 PM REPLY
You may be right. I noticed in one of your articles about Leonard Cohen you said that you had come to the conclusion that you couldn’t any longer trust your gut feeling. I agree with that. And I can envision situations where I might make a wrong decision about a particular guru. But this guy? First of all claiming to be Christ would raise a huge red flag for me. And all the staring followed by platitudes? He sounds like the Barack Obama of gurus. Definitely hearing about and reading up on these people is a huge help. You’re doing a good service here. I probably would not have heard of him otherwise.

Jasun Horsley
APRIL 10, 2017 AT 7:13 PM REPLY
John doesn’t ever publicly claim to be Christ; he has let it be known among long-term followers and then continues to nurture that belief through hints and nods and innuendos. As Tim says in our talk, he rules through implication.

You can read the full article and discussion here - very intense, about a 30 to 45 minute read.

Ignorance is Strength: John de Ruiter’s Empire of One
BY JASUN HORSLEY APRIL 1, 2017

[auticulture.wordpress.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2017 04:53AM by corboy.

I never heard of the self-styled guru, John de Ruiter, until now, corboy. Control and deception seem to be the trade secrets of these people.

Here are a few quotes from an article about him that seem very apropos to the Walk/TLWF:

"He was their guru and teacher, to some even a saviour, a humble messiah they called simply 'John.' They left their lives and families to be with him, devoted themselves completely to him and his teachings.

He arranged their marriages and relationships, their jobs and homes, gave them counsel and made their decisions, their lives winding ever more tightly around him while he drew from them their time and their labour, their money and their love.

They were Johnites or Oasis, sometimes The College, or just 'the group'....

The University of Alberta sociologist Dr. Kent, who has now been watching the group for two decades, says a sense that the outside world is against de Ruiter could even be used to de Ruiter's advantage, and he could see de Ruiter expanding international operations or embarking on a big new project as a way to bring people back together. Dr. Kent says an increase in talk about the apocalypse, which some former followers have reported to him, could be a way to draw the community closer and shut out any questions and doubts, which many followers will be happy to do. It is far harder to leave than to stay.

'The more you invest in something the harder it is to walk away from it. It is very hard to leave,' Dr. Kent says. 'The consequences for the people who have devoted themselves to him and thought he was beyond human can be devastating.'"

[www.theglobeandmail.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2017 10:06PM by Reepicheep.

Great article corboy and quotes Reepicheep! I know for me what helped begin the process of unwrapping the web of deceit was to discover how similar the manipulation techniques of these cults are. Somehow you are convinced that your experience is a unique one, and then you find out there are many groups just like TLWF – some Christian groups even have their own Shilohs. They may have different doctrines, but the methods of control are the same. Even mainstream Christianity functions using many of the same techniques, and it takes discernment to step around the potholes. We’re posting on a website that is full of examples.

It is a lot of work to do the research, but the outcome is like a vaccine that provides some protection from further doses of the disease. I know most professional counselors warn against blaming the victim, and I want to be careful not to do that. However, I personally wanted to examine the areas of vulnerability in me that had allowed this deception to happen in the first place. Which warning signs had I chosen to ignore – and there were many of them.

Reepicheep’s list of ten signs of a cult might be a good place to start, if you haven’t done any research. I remember thinking back in TLWF that every cell in my body knew it was wrong, and yet I submitted, believing it was a test of my obedience to the Lord. The fruit was not life, but a mess. The first red flag is to look at the fruit as Jesus said, instead of calling it faith when it is bad. When you put lipstick on a pig, it is still a pig. It may provide hope to know that there really are people in the world producing good fruit – even if you haven’t discovered them yet.

For me, just having a season of being a flawed human, with no spiritual input, actually cleared up many destructive areas. Over time, I did come to realize though that there are spiritual laws that affect all of our lives, whether we believe in them or not. Just like gravity – it works on everyone no matter what their belief system. Some actions produce life and others produce destruction. I think many religions utilize these principles so there is at least some measure of functionality to their belief systems. It’s not only Christians that have figured out that forgiveness is a good thing. Well, there are probably many Christians that still have not figured that out since they have been listening to men, instead of God.

There is a healthy order that God meant for us to experience in this life that provides freedom, as opposed to the bondage of man-made religion. I have found the teachings of Jesus to be in a league all by themself, providing healing from the past and life and good fruit in the present. However, it does take a focused effort to separate what he actually said from the teachings of those who want to use him to make themselves look important and fleece his followers. It was the religious leaders that wanted Jesus dead - not much has changed.

There's an old but great book by psychologist Len Oakes entitled Prophetic Charisma. Oakes interviewed 20 charismatic leaders of sects, churches, etc.

He found that all of them had been avid students of social influence. They were not born with PR skills, they were not born knowing how to set up retreat facilities, did not come out of the womb knowing how to enthrall using language, silences, gazes.

They *learned* all this. Studied it, were in careers prior to prophethood that ranged from schoolteaching, sales, acting, performing music.

And all twenty of them met the clinical criteria for narcissistic personality disorder. All of them had a desperate unconscious drive for affirmation.

None could enjoy adult, intimate peer to peer relationships. They had to be in control, all the time.


[forum.culteducation.com]

larry bobo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I happen to know that Invisible had a lot of
> personal contact with John that many of us did not
> have, and they really are a treasure to this
> discussion. It’s a difficult process to unwrap
> the brain washing that has taken place, and we do
> need to have compassion for each other, no matter
> where we are individually in the deprogramming
> process.
>
>
I love Invisible too but I have to say that the posts by dbc, Reepicheep, and Cloudwatcher to set the record straight about not celebrating Christmas and how it was used to control us were compassionate and courageous. In fact, they were my favorite posts of the year along with changedagain celebrating his newly found Jewish identity. lol THank you.

After leaving. I came to the realization John wasn't who I thought he was. Pretty quickly. It started with me acknowledging he probably didn't recognize his own condition (2 Tim 3:13;2 Peter 2:13), That may not be true. I have no way of knowing. Maybe he was a conman. Then I looked at the teaching. Not the man. The teaching was wacked. How could I have believed that stuff. I do know this. The brainwashing by the LW to keep people silent was effective then and today. To speak out here does take courage. We don't always mince words either. We shouldn't mince words about a movement that was so destructive.

NickleandDimed Wrote:
> The brainwashing by the LW to keep
> people silent was effective then and today. To
> speak out here does take courage. We don't always
> mince words either. We shouldn't mince words about
> a movement that was so destructive.

John would quote scripture to justify his hold on people's lives, and thwart those who might question him. Marilyn would wholeheartedly back him in this, since it kept the power structure intact. I recall the phrase "cutting out their tongue" being attributed to Marilyn within the inner circle, as an approach to those who were the least bit outspoken about they considered abuse of power. I assumed at the time it was used in a figurative way, but now I think if it was legal, it would be carried out. John would often reference the story of Korah--where as a consequence of him griping about Moses, and the special treatment given to the Levites, the earth swallowed him up--along with his followers (Numbers 16). The message was clear--you mess with 'God's anointed' (John, Marilyn etc.), and you and those who sympathize with you will pay the consequences. You're guilty of committing the 'sin of Korah' (John, presumably, fulfilling the Moses role). Not a light thing. To speak out, even today with John being dead now for close to 35 years, does take courage.
Fear is a very powerful force to keep people in check...enabling 'authorities' to engage in a completely hypocritical lifestyle with impunity. As someone mentioned in this forum, if you have the hots for your secretary and/or feel spiritually connected to her, get a divorce and marry her. That is much more honest, though not laudatory, then characterizing her as a channel of Satan, and encouraging the entire fellowship to pray for her death.

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> John would quote scripture to justify his hold on
> people's lives, and thwart those who might
> question him. Marilyn would wholeheartedly back
> him in this, since it kept the power structure
> intact. I recall the phrase "cutting out their
> tongue" being attributed to Marilyn within the
> inner circle, as an approach to those who were the
> least bit outspoken about they considered abuse of
> power. I assumed at the time it was used in a
> figurative way, but now I think if it was legal,
> it would be carried out. John would often
> reference the story of Korah--where as a
> consequence of him griping about Moses, and the
> special treatment given to the Levites, the earth
> swallowed him up--along with his followers
> (Numbers 16). The message was clear--you mess
> with 'God's anointed' (John, Marilyn etc.), and
> you and those who sympathize with you will pay the
> consequences. You're guilty of committing the 'sin
> of Korah' (John, presumably, fulfilling the Moses
> role). Not a light thing. To speak out, even today
> with John being dead now for close to 35 years,
> does take courage.
> Fear is a very powerful force to keep people in
> check...enabling 'authorities' to engage in a
> completely hypocritical lifestyle with impunity.
> As someone mentioned in this forum, if you have
> the hots for your secretary and/or feel
> spiritually connected to her, get a divorce and
> marry her. That is much more honest, though not
> laudatory, then characterizing her as a channel of
> Satan, and encouraging the entire fellowship to
> pray for her death.

Wow, great post, changedagain! I had forgotten about Korah. Once the fear of disagreement has become part of your being, you sort of forget how you got that way. Now that you brought that up, a few others come to mind. There was Miriam, who was struck with leprosy for murmuring against Moses. Then there were Ananias and Saphira, for lying to the apostles.

Another story about never giving up your dedication that worked well on me was from Foxe's Book of Martyrs. There were one hundred Christians being sent to their deaths by freezing and they were chanting, "Grant that we be one hundred when we stand begore Thee." A few Christians became so fearful and so cold that they gave up and ran back to the fire. Each time this happened, an onlooker or a Roman soldier would be so moved that they went and took the person's place. John could tell that story so well and equate it with being faithful to him and the Walk. He sure knew how to twist our emotions!

Another expression that was used often was “taking a coffee break from God”

It was used to shame anyone who had outside interests or wanted to go on a vacation.

This is high-demand cult tactics. It is so unhealthy.

Repeat sermon alert:

The New Leaven of the Kingdom
December 30, 2017 - by Gary Hargrave
Monte Sião, Niterói, Brazil.

God is doing a whole new thing in the earth by bringing forth His Kingdom, and it is totally different than anything we have ever known or experienced. Are we willing and ready for the new?

A new thing called The Kingdom?!?

Wow! We'd better all rush down to Brazil, folks. Something brand new is happening and all we have to to is get over the past. Great! Yawn....