I guess if you put enough lip stick and makeup on a pit bull, some poor old sap will marry her.

(No offensive to pit bulls intended)

The system needs to youth to believe in the product in order to survive.

Without any fulfillment there will be no gain for all the pain.

(A hard lesson to learn.)

lily rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kbyrne-yes the same dramas and scandals happen in
> other churches too. Why though are some of the LW
> ones so life destroying?

Lily rose -- That is a good point. I honestly did not realize until reading posts in this forum how devastated many people's lives were. I'm trying to come to terms with my experiences and that of other people. I remember almost the day I turned 18, I asked JRS about moving out. I wanted to move into one of the communal homes. He said that I shouldn't. That my parents need me there and I should stay.

Also, I was at Shiloh during the Jim Jones/People's Temple massacre. They (JRS/Marilyn) encouraged all of us to go home if our families were worried about us being in a cult. I had never heard that there were journalist snooping around at the time, which does put a different spin on it.

I do know that a few months ago, my friend who is still in the walk emailed me that she had talked with someone that knew me from back in the day. I had actually lived for a time with him and his family. She had asked about them coming to see me. I lived maybe five to six hours away from them. And although I don't have any ill feelings at all towards this person and his family, quite the opposite, my reaction was very quickly "no way"! I felt like they were going to try to convince me to come back and I knew I wanted no part of it. I know I'm dealing with a lot of buried stuff and I'm only now starting this journey.

The books that people have mentioned, the one by Woodrow Nichols and another one, "Churches that Abuse," I had never heard of before, but I am now reading them. They're really helpful. I know at the end of the day I have to have my walk with God. No church, person, or forum can do that for me.

kbyrne-Early on in the Walk, JRS really looked after those who were under him and loyal to him and he made them feel good and met their personal needs. When I look back on the early to mid 70's, the Valley Church didn't seem that cultish. It was quite large and submission/obedience to the ministries of all aspects of ones life described in First Principles and divorcing your parents wasn't always emphasized. Though it seems some of the outlying churches may have taken the First Principles very seriously and were more cultish in the treatment of the members. I think the Walk as a whole became more cultish toward the latter part of the 70's, more focus and elevating of JRS, more militant young Timothies devoted to JRS. Also during that time the revelation JRS said he was receiving from the Lord was morphing with more emphasis on the ministry of JRS and his breakthroughs. Though, there are some who think the Walk under JRS wasn't a cult and became cultish under G&M.

kbyrne Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, I was at Shiloh during the Jim
> Jones/People's Temple massacre. They
> (JRS/Marilyn) encouraged all of us to go home if
> our families were worried about us being in a
> cult. I had never heard that there were
> journalist snooping around at the time, which does
> put a different spin on it.
>

I have been learning a lot by reading too, kbyrne. Not all cult leaders become raving maniacs like Jim Jones. Most are more subtle. Jones was once known for empathy. The manipulation and control by G&M grew over time. Most didn't recognize what was happening. Even when the manipulation became extreme. IMO the manipulation and control by John also grew overtime.

NickleandDimed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kBOY Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 40yearsin2016:
> >
> > I have openly confessed to being in a cult to
> > dozens of people over the years, some of whom I
> > barely knew. It would always somehow come up as
> a
> > random tangent in wherever the conversation was
> > heading. You may find it become second-nature
> > after a while, like a resume
> > enhancement--especially if you turned out
> to be
> > fairly 'normal'.
>
>
> This resume enhancement has served me well
>
> Relevant Work History
>
> Timlothians (May 1972 to April 2017)


Perchance you meant Timloathians.

These several posts are in large part, my experience as well. I didn't view TLW as being cultish until I moved to Yakima under John Miller, who was fairly militant in his views on JRS. Many, many all nighters praying for the Nephilim to die (we all knew that meant Martha, but it wasn't said out loud). That was from '75 to '78.

Many of those I knew in Yakima are no longer part of the church, thank goodness.
When I moved to San Diego to marry, I was assigned to the El Cajon church, something for which I will be forever grateful. it made it much easier to leave the church. I think if I had been in the San Diego group I would have agonized a great deal more about my decision to abandon the cult.

Life is so much better on the outside!

rond Wrote:

> Many of those I knew in Yakima are no longer part
> of the church, thank goodness.
> When I moved to San Diego to marry, I was assigned
> to the El Cajon church, something for which I will
> be forever grateful. it made it much easier to
> leave the church.

Good point. The further one was from the militancy of 'John's sons'--the more likely it was you could leave unscathed and pursue a more enjoyable (sane) life.
Thanks for weighing in, Rond.
BTW, my wife started out in Yakima. She was there in '74-'75.

Lily Rose asked me to share about the van rides, I wish I could tell you more but all that sticks after almost 40 years and not wishing to see, was that JRS and Marilyn talked between stops and mostly no one else. They were going over the messages as they were shared in each service, Blix girls, her, making notes. At the time it didn't seem strange but after we left it did. Why was she having so much input?
Picking up from where I left my last post, we saw Shaw and one of the "elders" from Terrebonne at a service toward the last week of our stay, they were not happy campers with us, and me in particular. Wouldn't speak to us but glared big time. They may have been going with JRS to Shiloh that week as was my husband, JRS took my husband with him on that trip, spring 1978. Not sure how long they stayed I was still with the Riches and working in LW building with collating.During our stay we had a private counceling session at one point with John, he was having trouble with his eyes and spoke with us about wondering what the was, he and several others had been recently experiencing issues along this line. That is all I recal about that visit but I'm sure he asked my husband questions about our issues with Shaw, McKinney, I just don't recall.We had also had Klines ask us a lot about the issues before leaving their home.
This is very emotional, sharing this, never having spoken to anyone in all these years about any of this, my husband never would speak of any of it clear up until his death in 2001.
When they arrived back from Shiloh, it seems like they were gone a week, not certain, everyone was very pumped, my husband also. In the van that Sunday John spent the whole ride speaking with my husband, telling him he wished for him to manage his farms in Iowa, and help with what John was looking into about doing cost effective masonry, with bricks made from dirt, someone in AZ I believe was doing something along that line.Having an ranching/farming background as well as building contracting in his background, John wanted him to work directly for him.
He pointedly asked my husband if he thought they could work together and he told him yes.
JRS told us he would be in contact with the Shaw, McKinney bunch that we would be leaving for that to Iowa and they were not to hinder us and what we needed to do to bring that to pass when we got back to WY. JRS ministered to my husband that evening after the service.
This is what followed and even today as I write this I still do not know the full of it because my husband would never speak of it.We had been married since 1958 so I trusted his judgement and left it there.We had only been in the LW since 73.I learned years after leaving in '79 that Shaw's churches all said I was a Jezebel and that my husband was to divorce me,but I do not believe this came from John because he spoke with me included that day in the van.
It was how they had been treating our kids while we were away that broke our hearts, we moved immediately back to our home in Rock Springs, and decided then and there there was to be nothing more to do with any of it. My Husband also said, the only real comment he made about the whole month, that he did not like what he saw while at Shiloh.Our oldest son had been at Shiloh for a few months and he called us and wanted to come home we told him, "Come On".
I know I didn't add much to this information but I did need to get this out and I know it's a safe place here. Thank you.