I do hope that the group of us who gather on this page to seek explanations, insight, etc in an attempt to make sense of experiences, will in time, be able to put the bulk of it in the past. We live in the here and now, and have little control over anything that happens, but we have the ability to control how we respond. I know that harbouring hurt, resentment, ill feelings etc, does nothing positive and it restrains us from entering into the Blessing which God does have for us. Once we give a mental attitude of forgiveness for one who has harmed us either knowingly or unknowingly, we break that chain that binds us to the oppression. We cannot forgive of our own accord. Even Jesus showed that by asking the Heavenly Father to forgive those that knew no better. So we ask for help in the action of exercising forgiveness and in a sense it is carrying out a principle of faith.
As hard as it may be for a lot of us to believe that anything positive can come out of the Walk, we may be surprised, perhaps. It would require Gary and the various so called leaders to ask for forgiveness, but maybe if people prayed for Gary to realise the truth, Gary and all who are in the place to ask forgiveness will come into the light. The Glory belongs to none other than Jesus Christ Himself, and to God the Father. We are but servants and until the leaders of any Christian movement realises this, they are falling short of the mark in an attempt to elevate themselves into positions of Power.

I was around for the slain in the spirit phase of TLWF as well as being aware of a lot of that type of thing in the charismatic movement - where it also included holy laughter, barking like dogs, crowing like chickens etc. Jesus talked about none of it in his teaching and it seems to me like further weirdness of the “super-spiritual”. Following signs and wonders instead of pursuing him is a recipe for disaster. On the other hand, there is the miraculous that follows them that believe. We’re not to follow miracles, they are to follow us as we follow Him. Jesus warned of lying signs and wonders, as well as those who would come saying they were the Christ. We would be wise to take heed of his warnings. Character really does matter – even if nobody is perfect - and there will be evidence of the fruit of the Spirit where God is at work and not just human ideas.

I’ve often thought it would be nice if those slain in the spirit would manifest the fruit of the spirit after they got up, since that is the real test Jesus laid out for determining the true from the counterfeit. A little research will show being slain in the spirit even takes place in primitive tribes where they have never even heard of Jesus – it’s not a validation of God being at work, even though it could be a metaphysical activity. As kboy has mentioned several times, is there love for God and one another – including our enemies? As James says, “If a man says he loves God and hates his brother, he is a liar”. I would suggest the death prayers of the 70’s and 80’s are an indication that we were living under a lie. Jesus even told his own disciples that they didn’t know what spirit they were of when they wanted to call down fire on those who opposed them, so none of us are exempt from this deception.

To make a clarification: Sorry for the delay on this,

In saying what I wrote on an earlier post, about the many religious institutions - saying that they have not heard or received what the Lord instructed - in this specific area - when He was revealing where God IS and how we are to give to the poor or to pray - I want to say I was in no way saying these institutions should not exist. Because God's people are functioning in these institutions of faith and religious service. And God love's them.

I really didn't mean to make a big thing out of the falling over and slain in the spirit stuff. I am just amazed that all that sort of pentecostal type stuff happened out there, I was under the impression that sort of thing would be more found on than considered to be confirmation of anything.

The more I study this and objectively look at Living Word fellowship, the stories I get of the days I was actually associated loosely with it, the more I now understand that out west in what we really considered the real Mecca, the holy land of the Walk, was basically your typical pentecostal church that is every few blocks right here at home. My God, I can not believe I traveled so many miles messing with the Walk when I could have just walked down to the corner and I would have been there.

LARRY B.


As you correctly point out, our own ‘calling fire down from HEAVEN’ 70’s hysteria is more than embarrassing, it is completely absurd in the LIGHT of the GOSPEL of LOVE. (When one is drunk with ‘new wine’, there’s no telling what might happen.)

The ‘enemy’ reference to ‘LOVING your enemies’ is more in line with the mindset of John the Baptist, who still harbored the ‘us vs. them’ mentality foundational in Judaism, no matter what the flavor. This may have been the cause of the statement, “The least in the KINGDOM is greater than he . . .”, (the KINGDOM referring to the realization of ONENESS, as opposed to continuing to operate out of separation).

The point of the GOSPEL breaks down all barriers of ‘us vs. them’, thus removing even the concept of an ‘enemy’. This was quite evident in the example you referenced with the disciples calling down fire. They were still operating out of an old paradigm, whereas Jesus was introducing one that ruled out the concept of ‘enemies’ altogether, and recognized the TRUE ONENESS of our CREATION, in spite of appearances to the contrary.

This revelation he walked out all the way to the cross. That’s the standard set before us.

Regarding love.

Jesus said,

John 14:15 If you love Me you will keep my commandments.

John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father and I will love him and will (disclose My Self to him.)
----
He discloses Himself to those who have and keep His commandments.

In order to ( have) His commandments, we must ( receive ) His commandments, in order to have them.

And then when we ( "have" His commandments) and ( keep) His commandments, Jesus said we will be loved by His Father and he will love us and reveal Himself to us.

Our love for the Lord is directly related to us having and keeping His ( Jesus' ) commandments .

Can we truly love our brother or our enemies until we love the Lord? Can we truly love the Lord, if we do not personally have His commandments, and Keep them?

We can not assume that we really know what love - is.

Larry B.- I believe the work of the cross in our lives is to love Him.

Just finished reading 1980s Woodrow Nichols' 150 pages on The Walk. I was never involved but have known a few who were part of the Valley Church 1975-1985.

Question 1
Can you confirm that indeed The Walk faithful would pray/violently intercede for JR Stevens to move up to higher levels of spiritual revelation which eventually would bring him into the Kingdom and thus he would have been able to lead the rest to join as manifested Sons of God?

Question 2
Nichols has a quote from JR Stevens (page 66, "Plumb Perfect" from January 1977)
that "... the Lord puts you through process that will bring you into sonship, into deity. Do not be passive in the process. Assume the deity that God wants His people to have ..."

Basically I'm just looking for understanding if this is actually true.

Thank you very much.

William Cheriegate
Santa Clarita, CA

INVISIBLE


You could clarify matters by simply replacing ‘commandments’ with ‘LOVE GOD, LOVE your Brother’.

Simple is as simple does.

typo, sorry, I meant FROWNED on, instead of found on. I always thought pentecostal behavior like that would have been looked down on, not approved of. Sorry..



I really didn't mean to make a big thing out of the falling over and slain in the spirit stuff. I am just amazed that all that sort of pentecostal type stuff happened out there, I was under the impression that sort of thing would be more found on than considered to be confirmation of anything.

I can confirm those, both of them. Now the second one was not worded exactly like that. What you have to understand is that STEVENS and the rest called it 'becoming CHRIST IN THE EARTH." It's a subtle play on words, but the meaning is exactly that, that the church itself and the members of that church would BECOME Christ. As if CHRIST-SHIP was a "level" to be attained in a graduating scale. Those levels were attained by understanding the LIVING WORD, which, as JRS explained in the message *the Word became God" but yea, that's true. Sounds a little crazy HUH???



cheriegate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just finished reading 1980s Woodrow Nichols' 150
> pages on The Walk. I was never involved but have
> known a few who were part of the Valley Church
> 1975-1985.
>
> Question 1
> Can you confirm that indeed The Walk faithful
> would pray/violently intercede for JR Stevens to
> move up to higher levels of spiritual revelation
> which eventually would bring him into the Kingdom
> and thus he would have been able to lead the rest
> to join as manifested Sons of God?
>
> Question 2
> Nichols has a quote from JR Stevens (page 66,
> "Plumb Perfect" from January 1977)
> that "... the Lord puts you through process that
> will bring you into sonship, into deity. Do not be
> passive in the process. Assume the deity that God
> wants His people to have ..."
>
> Basically I'm just looking for understanding if
> this is actually true.
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> William Cheriegate
> Santa Clarita, CA