CHANGED


I was never close to Bob McClane by virtue of proximity issues, but he was assigned by JRS a Wednesday night Word-bringing gig while I was in the Valley from 77-78, where I totally fell in LOVE with the guy. Later, I did have the opportunity to visit him at the hospital in San Diego following his open-heart surgery, where he proudly displayed his giant ‘zipper-scared’ chest.

In his own way, despite dealing with many personal demons, he was larger-than-life. I happened to be at the Shiloh amphitheater show when the fireworks, lightning and Bob simultaneously declared ‘seeing Satan fall from Heaven’. It was quite a moment.

Not having attended Bob’s Memorial Celebration, it is just one more sad note to add to a songbook of many sad songs TLW will have to bear.

kBoy

I read your response and really did not see the difference you were claiming existed from what I said to what you said. To reiterate: Human life is just life for all of us, suffering happens to all. Unfairness, injustice, wounding, grief, broken dreams happen to all, and normally good things also, and even those we consider "rich and famous" have their own sufferings. The difference is and always has been faith. The two thieves died the same death for the same reasons, but one of them came into a revelation of Christ and his suffering transforms from the mundane suffering of fallen humanity, to the open door to paradise. No matter what happens we determine our final outcome. As C.S. Lewis stated that finally there will only be two classes of people, those that say "Thy will be done." And then those that say "My will be done."

A couple of things I will note the conversation about JRS making people fall over etc...

1: It has been misstated, when he brought the word he simply asked people to take their seats as any normal speaker requests.

2. Many ministers from Amy Simple McPhearson, to Kathryn Kulman to simply hundreds of ministers have been able to lay hands on people and you fall because of the usually unfamiliar contact with the Holy Spirit. And in Angeles Temple McPhearson would walk down the aisle from the back with her hands extended and people not seeing her were mowed down several rows deep, this witnessed over time by perhaps hundreds of thousands.

Yet McPherson died of an overdose of drugs. So I am not disturbed that unworthy vessels are used by God to do things on this earth. In fact when you find a perfect one to express God in this earth the normal reaction of humanity is to kill them, then make their name the favorite curse word on the planet. I was knocked down one time when I was 17 at the Valley Church. I was not a Christian just got talked into going up for a blessing by my grandmother. As soon as JRS's hands came near my head (not even touching me) I fell as if I had no strength to stand. JRS then prayed a prayer over me and I felt the love and concern for me at that time. He also spoke things to me that only I knew. So being a Science Fiction fan I just explained it to myself that JRS had ESP or could read minds. Not until several years later did I come to Christ and understood what happened to me was from the Holy Spirit. Now no minister, and I have been around famous ones, could do that to me again.

I think many people kept falling down because in their minds it had become a badge of spirituality, that they are the "sensitive" ones. JRS would have spent every minute of every hour if he spent all his time correcting soulish behavior when encountering the power of the Holy Spirit. He did teach that you can channel what comes from the Holy Spirit into a soulish expression, but you ought to learn to channel it to your spirit, if you can even distinguish between your soul and spirit.

Kirlian photography does show an extension of the aura from the hands of noted healers or even psychics, so something does happen via the hands that cannot be seen other than with specialized photography, or Kilner screens. I would avoid being the "science guy" and scoff at all things mystical, seems a little arrogant to me.

And the seeming verdict by some on this forum that unless things were perfect, it was not of God flies in the face of all scripture and all personal experience. God still moves with imperfect broken vessels something it seems even harder to grasp than even recognizing your own imperfection, but God still moved through you I would hope.

I am going to make a prediction. Judging from the way that Gary Hargrave has done things, I would look for the same to happen to him. I think Hargrave is going to be booted out. He don't have any damnd personality, his only hold on anything is that he was married to the woman that was married to John. His royal bloodline is getting thinner and thinner.

I doubt anyone has the leverage within TLW to accomplish that, including Rick Holbrook. The best you could hope for would be a surprise resignation, possibly due to health or some other issue.

I don't think it has anything to do with leverage in Living Word, I think it has to do with reaping what he has sown.

The link you provided is no good. Factnet.organization is not found.

PAUL T.


I was attempting to point out contradictory statements made in the same sentence; “I determine my spiritual fate”, but then, “He was in charge of it all”. These statements reflect conflicting paradigms that lend to the confusion that many face in trying to reconcile their TLW experiences.

On the one hand you have an Old Testament paradigm, where we were created ‘defective’, pissed GOD off, and were summarily kicked out of HEAVEN into an insane world GOD created. That allows us to play the ‘victim card’, where we may admit to some culpability (or, simply default to ‘the devil made me do it’), but it also allows us to throw GOD under the bus as a ‘co-conspirator’. This also contributes heavily to the image of a GOD which appears to be fairly unhinged.

On the other hand we have a paradigm in the Prodigal Parable which completely contradicts the first. In this version, complete responsibility for our ‘plight’ is placed entirely on our shoulders, removing GOD from the equation entirely. Not only that, the depiction of GOD is one of UNCONDITIONAL LOVE despite any details which made up our little prodigal misadventure. This version most aptly demonstrated in how Jesus lived his life, reflected GOD, and was the basis for the revelation he was attempting to convey in his GOSPEL. In no way were his teachings an endorsement of Judaism, but were a radical departure from it entirely. Only in Christianity do we see a salad bowl tossed full of contradictions.

This is the confusion many face in trying to sort out whether they were responsible for their involvement in TLW, or whether GOD was to be blamed for allowing them to be duped. These mindsets are worlds apart, and each is a reflection of one version of GOD or the other.

I’ll conclude this epistle with the version you now seem to espouse: “No matter what happens we determine our final outcome”, along with ‘my will be done’ got us into this situation, and ‘Thy will be done’, will get us back out.

I don't think anybody said that anybody had to be perfect or they were not of God. I think though that there are people that think that people can be and do anything they want to do to anybody they want to do it to and they will still be of God.

Bellapond. Welcome. The old FactNet is sort of still there. As archives.
try this one:

[tinyurl.com]

I would not get caught up in any of the signs and wonders which took place in the congregations of the Living Word churches. We were warned that not all would be signalling the presence of the Holy Spirit.