Kboy,

I do not understand what you are saying in your first paragraph. Not your fault but if you will explain and break it down for me , that I might be able to understand this that you wrote to me.

However I do agree that Jesus spoke to Love God with all your heart and to love your brother, your neighbor, just how you love yourself.

True religion is to visit your orphans and your widows. But when you see that many of those who promote feeding the poor, visiting the widows and the orphan's make a big business for themselves, and you see them sounding their trumpets before them, advertising all the good they are doing so you will give to them to meet the needs of those in need, you know by the Word of the Lord, that they have not heard the Lord nor have they received what He taught and instructed because He said not to do this. But He did say, "When you give to the poor, give in secret. And when you pray go in and shut the door behind you and pray in secret. So when you give to the poor or pray, do so in secret where God hears and where God IS.

Matthew 5:18,19 Jesus also taught and spoke -
Do not think I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets, I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished. Who ever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the Kingdom of heaven. And so I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Scribes and the Pharisees , you shall not enter the Kingdom of heaven.

To me keeping the Law is not a pass that gets me into heaven. The Law is a teacher, a tutor for me, until I become mature in my relationship with God even as Jesus was mature in His relationship with His God and Father. The Law reveals the "Righteousness of God." It is what makes me aware that I am created and that God (who is love) is the Creator.

The Law was not given to make men perfect it was given to reveal the righteousness' of God. And through the Law given by God - all mankind has been shut up under the Law of God that they might realize they need to be saved. And there is only One name that has been given both in heaven and earth by which a man can be saved. And this Name, God gave His only begotten Son. Who came to make known that GOD IS and He became the expression of the fullness of God's love, for all who are in this world.

So yes I agree with you in this, that whether it be Judaism or Christianity or any religious organization, whether cult or denomination, on the face of this earth - being a part of any is not a man's salvation nor is it the means of deliverance from the evil that is in this world.

This is what I think at this time.

I believe we can not love our brother as we ought to, until we love God as we are to love God.

And I think that without the Law - is lawlessness which becomes chaos - which opens the door to all kinds of evil deeds and to insanity. For the Law of God, affords us, a part of the foundation , for clear thinking.

Yes, Paleface, there is no doubt that the Scripture is directly related to one own natural parents.

INVISIBLE: Regarding your query;

The Old Testament is where we find the admonish to honor one’s parents, as well as numerous directives to ‘separate yourselves’ from all kinds of other situations. (I’m sure Leviticus, Deuteronomy and Numbers can supply examples aplenty.)

The New Testament talks about leaving “x/y/z for the sake of the gospel. . .” (Mark 10:29)

Borrowing from above, and adding in TLW’s ‘pure atmosphere’ emphasis, and the ‘fear factor’ of withdrawal, it is easy to doctrinally ‘justify’ any actions one might take in ostracizing one’s parents.

Point being, Christian doctrine can oftentimes be contrary to LOVE. I hope that clarifies things.

You hit the nail on the head with this. Everything but love is a clanging cymbal. Just unpleasant noise. It is that simple.

KBoy,

Thank you for answering my question as to what you were saying.

I think love is something that is very difficult to define with words and often times I think we cannot recognize it.

Actually, Jesus gave us the instruction to forgive, as He himself, upon the cross, pleaded that God the Father should forgive them for they know not what they do. It is hard to forgive very hurtful wrongs, but Jesus did show us the way. To keep dwelling on the past means we cannot forgive or forget, so we carry it all as a burden.

Hello Invisible.

My experience leads me to believe that there is no qualifications to forgiveness. It seems to me to be an absolute requirement. As an example I love America with all my heart, mind, and strength. Not so much about people but the idea of personal liberty and freedom, that then allows spiritual "experimentation." Unless there is political freedom, personal freedom then any search for spiritual growth will be limited.

As enshrined in our Declaration of Independence: Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. This originally was preached for 70 years over the pulpits in America proceeding the Revolutionary War. It was not intended as it is interpreted now that you are given liberty to carouse, do drugs and generally lead a dissolute life. It meant people must be free to seek God as THEY will.

So certainly this allows all sorts of expression and yes also error and deception. Otherwise we are in the age-old problem of free will versus pre-ordained destiny.

Now my point is that for years because of my love for America I excused my hatred for those in progressive ideologies, because in my opinion they pervert the true meaning of freedom and generally people under the doctrines of secular-humanism seek for an all powerful government that will diaper their asses from cradle to grave. And not strangely, even though you have head-choppers declaring war on all free men and woman, secular humanists only see Christianity as their enemy.

But the more I hate, even given a good excuse, the more it poisons me. I have to stop and pray for the forgiveness of what I truly believe are my enemies and would gladly throw people like me into re-education camps if time and circumstance permit. However if I forgive and they do not ever come to a place of repentance, then God Himself (according to scripture) intervenes.

My point is that there is absolutely no excuse ever in the scripture, especially New Testament for unforgiveness, it is a deadly poison and it will with certainty destroy your faith. It is the AIDS of the spirit realm.

This is not to say I have this all worked out, I do not, but the spirit is leading me in this direction. And ultimately the one thing that distinguished Christ and was a testimony of His "Divine" nature was His forgiveness. As the viscious Roman soldiers who perhaps had crucified hundreds testified. "Never did a man dies as this one!" They never witnessed such an act.

Believe me anyone crucified was cursing their tormentors, but Christ alone forgave while enduring the most intense agony a human being can experience, but not only this he was being mocked, he was naked as he died and was taking on the sins of the whole world. So Christ ends his earthly existence by proclaiming; "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do!"

In our perspective they absolutely knew what they were doing, but from Christ's greater vision He knew they were pupetts on strings, doing the will of demons, and Satan and their own flesh nature. In some way Christ recognizes we are NOT free, we are controlled. We must all re-capitulate the experience of Christ and die to our own sin nature and manipulation of demonic spirits by our own acts of forgiveness.

My only point here on this board is we can examine all the sins of the "Walk," of JRS, Gary and Marilyn and entirely miss the fact that the "Walk" maybe accomplished its goal in that many were crucified with Christ. But are you aware that is what happened or did someone just crap in your Cheerios?

Remember two thieves were crucified with Christ, one mocked Christ, the other went with him to Paradise...the next level. I determine my spiritual fate, not some preacher or group I was in...I determine this by my absolute commitment to serve God and to say that He was in charge of it all, including my suffering.

JAN W. LANE

You are correct in your assessment. Unfortunately, most of what comprises all religions is more noise than substance.


INVISIBLE

It is not really necessary to attempt a definition of LOVE--we intuitively KNOW what LOVE is. The confusion arises when we have been exposed to so many counterfeit representations of it, that we developed a pattern of accepting the false ‘as’ true.

There is no one who has ever walked the planet that has not either 1) observed LOVE, 2) received LOVE, or 3) extended LOVE. Claiming no ‘knowledge’ of IT simply does not stand up in court. The issue has always been when and to whom it has been applied, and conversely, withheld.

Jesus set the standard for refusing to withhold IT regardless of the situation, up to and including his execution. That is the standard we are all to follow--the WAY, if you will.

The LOVE that Jesus manifested was no different than the LOVE which we KNOW. The only difference lies in ITS application.

JAN W. LANE

You raise a very important point regarding FORGIVENESS. “Forgive them for they know not what they do.” This is pivotal to the revelation in which Jesus walked, and why his LOVE was unrestricted.

This was the recognition that anything outside of LOVE is a state of ‘temporary insanity’--not realizing the state of mind that is dictating the action. ‘As a man thinks, so is he’.

Jesus simply REALIZED that the state of our CREATION was nothing other than LOVE. Everything else was our own aberration (prodigal misadventure). Since we chose to venture off (wrong-minded decision), it was incumbent upon us to ‘change our mind’ (RIGHT-minded decision) and turn-tail for HOME.

Choosing LOVE only, is what Jesus realized, and set the course for all to follow. It is, in fact, the ONE WAY HOME.

I just happened to think about something that I intended to ask about a week or so ago but I don't guess I did, here goes: I read a few times on here how John Stevens had the POWER to make everybody sit down immediately when it was time for him to start bringing the word. Now I have thought about that a lot because I wonder if people just don't tend to place too much, WAY too much on small things. For instance, wouldn't that be what happens anytime the leader takes the pulpit? What is so amazing, mystical, and hyper anointed that it bears mentioning? He didn't mysteriously MAKE everybody sit down, you sat down on your own. Tell me if there is something that I am missing about this.

Also I recall when all the way to Georgia came a story of JRS knocking a hundred or so people off their feet backwards, just by raising his hand to wave goodbye. Well, Benny Hinn does that all the time. See, if there are a few people in front of a lot of people and they decide they want to fall back on the rest of the people there, well, it's the law of physics, the first ones to fall knock the others down. Anybody here ever play Dolminoes.

AD,
I was witness two times to JRS felling a few hundred people (me included) in the Valley Church.
I was an unwilling domino (meaning I wasn't playing along), and still have no explanation other than to believe that there are things in this universe I don't understand.