Invisible Wrote:
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> Not long ago - In trying to contact an old friend
> ( I had known for over 30 years ) I was told
> through the grapevine not to contact that person
> until I first had contact with the Shepherds in
> the Valley Church and got there o.k. (I was also
> told - It was a matter of protocol) So the
> relationships of grown old men and women are today
> still being monitored and governed by the
> ministry. The members run and tell the ministry -
> who from the outside is trying to relate to any of
> their members so it is both the ministry and the
> members who work together to preserve the wall
> around themselves.

Yeah, I hear you, Invisible. The dynamics of the whole thing is so perverse.

paleface Wrote:
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> Larry, there actually are a few dead bodies in the
> wake of the SS TLW. Several suicides from people
> that felt they could never measure up to the
> demands made by shepherds. I can't help but think
> they would be alive today, if they hadn't been
> exposed to the insane LW doctrines.

So much of the "dealings of the Lord" and the application of "the cross" pounded by the leaders (gary, marilyn etc.) into the minds of the followers have had the net effect of stripping people of their self-esteem, making them dependent on what approval they receive from their shepherds, and subservient to an agenda from which they really receive no benefit. The god revealed in the "living word", especially post-John, is at best a sociopath. Unfortunately, suicide has been the choice of some to escape this oppression. Sad.

changedagain wrote on 02\04\2014: “The god revealed in the "living word", especially post-John, is at best a sociopath.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It’s true. Talk about light versus darkness: Contrast the friendly, easy going, “playful personality” described on the road to Emmaus “Luke 24:13-32.”

And, Hebrews 1:3 says this is the exact same nature of the Great Creator Father of both existence and non-existence. We’re in good hands.

I remember how when one member died an early death - not suicide - his heart just gave out - I remember how the leader of the church , took a position at that man's memorial service to carrying on emotionally voicing how angry and upset he was with this man who died , for not having walked in the word over his life. He was voicing to the members of the church that this man was a spiritual failure.

The members think about their members the way the ministry tells them to think about their members . And even though this man who had died - had tried while he was yet alive and living among them - he tried to reach not only the leadership but he tried to reach many people in the church , to let them know what had been done to him as a member of the church and why what was done to him was wrong , but the majority of the members he spoke with - chose not to hear the man and what he was trying to tell them because the members idolized the leadership and because they idolized the leadership they were perversely loyal to the leadership.

The members were told by the ministry in that service - how to think about this man after he died - and that's what the people believed, which was a way for the leadership - to nullify the validity of what this man was trying to tell them while he was alive and living among them.. This is how the ministry avoided addressing and relating to this man and to what they had done to him.

It was utterly hopeless because the leadership had no openness' to acknowledge that they had done anything wrong, so nothing was able to be corrected. Much of the same thinking exists today as existed back then - the same kinds of deeds are being done today as were being done back then.

( IMO ) - We can only deliver our own self from participating in the kinds of deeds that they do to hurt and to destroy the well being of their members,

( IMO ) I think we can share what we have learned, we can point out all the wrong kinds of relationships and the wrong thinking that we each in our own way - have come to realize was detrimental and destructive to our own well being in life and to the well being of others in their lives - but only we can individually determine for our own self - how we will or will not - live our own lives.

Invisible Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I remember how when one member died an early death
> - not suicide - his heart just gave out - I
> remember how the leader of the church , took a
> position at that man's memorial service to
> carrying on emotionally voicing how angry and
> upset he was with this man who died , for not
> having walked in the word over his life. He was
> voicing to the members of the church that this man
> was a spiritual failure.

The man who died of heart failure was a friend of mine. His name was Bob. The man who broke the news of his death (during a church service in the Valley), and labeled him a failure, was Gary.
BTW, I know how this affected you, because I am aware of who you are.

Invisible wrote: “( IMO ) I think we can share what we have learned, we can point out all the wrong kinds of relationships and the wrong thinking that we each in our own way - have come to realize was detrimental and destructive to our own well being in life and to the well being of others in their lives - but only we can individually determine for our own self - how we will or will not - live our own lives.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I so agree!!! I have had this thinking for a long time, but for me there was a “spiritual spell,” or what you (Invisible) described as a sense of doing wrong, or a programmed sense of not being in the “Will of God.”

It’s one thing to break free in your thinking, but something quite different to break the bonds, the emotional conditioning, the programming, the spiritual chains attached to our own “ i am ” in the heavenly places; to destroy the “Living Word” as we knew it and replace it with a better, more correct and healthy experience of God.

Conversing with fellow/former “Walk” participants/victims has helped me beyond what words can describe. I’m very grateful and indebted. I’m actually “feeling” free, something I have not experienced for a long, long time. Thanks again. Thanks for this forum.

(Dumb Question ----- How much posting is required to counteract all that time spent yelling and interceding and carrying on?? I don’t know, but everybody’s post is certainly destroying another aspect in one form or another)

I recently learned just how total and evil the things that Gary did to Bob were. It was shocking. Gary basically robbed Bob. Then he turns around and speaks ill of him after he died. What kind of a person does this kind of stuff? And no one was more given than Bob. He gave his entire life to the Living Word. And they took full advantage of that openess. Reminds me of what recently happened to John Miller.

I previously said - that because the members idolized the leadership - that they are perversely loyal to the leadership.

Definitions:

idolize - To have inordinate love for; adore 2. To worship as an idol 3. To worship idols
inordinate - Not restrained by prescribed rules or boundaries; immoderate; excessive
Idolater - An adorer of images. 2. One who is inordinately fond of some person or thing.
idolatrous - pertaining to idolatry 2. Extravagant in admiration
idolatry - The worship of idols 2. idolatrous admiration
idolcast - a breaker of images.
see synonyms of : the word - image
-----------------
About 3 years or so - after I stopped going to the church - I had a friend who would point out to me, things that were wrong - and for over a year, I kept defending Gary and Marilyn, I kept making excuses for them, even though they were involved in further disrupting and injuring the relationship between my children and me.

I finally realized I was protecting an image I had developed over the years of G&M in my own mind. I had made them out to be to myself more than they were. I had also made them out to be to myself something that they were not.

When I recognized I was being perversely loyal by defending those to myself - those whose deeds were cruel and destructive - I started destroying little by little every area I became aware of in my own thinking - where I was being a support for G&M and for the ministry - over above and against me being a support - for what was right.

And then I started writing to the ministry and to G&M and to all those who had been a party with them in the wrong that had been done to my house. And over the years I heard that many had also been communicating and had communicated to G&M, to the ministry and to many of the members - about the wrong being done - so that many have been speaking the same thing to all the church - for many years..

paleface wrote on 02/05/2104: “I recently learned just how total and evil the things that Gary did to Bob were. It was shocking. Gary basically robbed Bob. Then he turns around and speaks ill of him after he died. What kind of a person does this kind of stuff? And no one was more given than Bob. He gave his entire life to the Living Word. And they took full advantage of that openess. Reminds me of what recently happened to John Miller.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What kind of a person does this kind of stuff?

A --- A loving person? ---- no.

B --- A friend? ---- no.

C --- A good shepherd? ---- no.

D --- A person who subscribes to the Golden Rule? ---- no.

E --- Normal people who believe in karma? ---- no.

F --- Rational citizens who know (self-evident) that “All men are created equal”, thus deserving respect? ---- no.


Irrational/psychopath

G --- A master? ---- perhaps.

H --- A king? ---- perhaps.

I --- A tyrant? ---- most likely.

They never ‘bad mouth’ the money; the ninety or so disqualified members of the Salt Lake City Church weren’t good enough, but their money certainly was “holy” and totally acceptable.

paleface Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I recently learned just how total and evil the
> things that Gary did to Bob were. It was
> shocking. Gary basically robbed Bob. Then he
> turns around and speaks ill of him after he died.
> What kind of a person does this kind of stuff?
> And no one was more given than Bob. He gave his
> entire life to the Living Word. And they took
> full advantage of that openess. Reminds me of
> what recently happened to John Miller.

Makes me wonder how they (tlwf leaders) will handle Marilyn's illness. I heard she was diagnosed with cancer. So far they have been very tight lipped about it. I remember not hearing of JRS's cancer until after he died and then g/m blamed the sheep for not praying enough. It doesn't matter what they do it only matters what we do. Pray for her. No judging, but place her in the Lord's hand. Being a cancer survivor, but losing my beloved wife to this diesease, it is something I wouldn't wish upon anyone. I understand tlwf may monitor this forum to spy out who might criticize what they do. I post this only to inform those of us who spilled their blood, sweat, and tears for this church and were mistreated. Now is the time to follow what our Lord said,"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you." Matt 5:44