Subud seems to have pretty well fizzled out with very few active members.I was fortunate in not having parents who took religion seriously and with Subud I could take it or leave it, which I did. To me it is not like an insidious cult such as Jehovah's Witnesses as Subud does not have apostates, however I sympathise with those who have been brought up to take the doctrinal writings of bapak and others literaly.They are nonsense and make as much sense as R L Hubbard on Scientology.

I'm 67 and joined Subud last year. A friend had been in Subud for years before he passed away two years ago. So when I reached out to the organization out of curiousity. I met with a helper for three months and was duly opened. Being opened felt more symbolic than anything, but I realized I've been in and our of cults for a long time. I realize now, just recently, that my birth family was like a cult. We were Catholics.

Latihan reminds me of Pentacostal prayer as much as anything. In that respect it has a certain appeal to me. Human beings live with a kind of divided consciousness between our conscious and subconscious minds. It's as if we live with one foot in the animal world and the other foot in a much finer world. So I'm always up to exploring that.

The problem is socialization and the inevitable peer pressure of any group. Back in the 80's I fell in with a Tibetan Buddhist center and learned so much. The inner silence of meditation, anger mgm't and practical vizualizations. I moved on to another city and 12 years later I took up briefly with a Shambala center. Trungpa had died in the 80's and the teachers were Americans by then. It felt manipulative and I didn't last long.

Same with the Gurdjieff groups. I was very lucky, my first mentor disabused me of my guru complex and steered my into the "12 steps" to deal with some personal issues. After 7 years our association ended when he said he didn't think he could do anything more for me. Keith was one of the most sincerely compassionate people I have ever know. Meanwhile I'd check out other 4th Way groups, more formally organized, that were manipulative and even sexual. Shambala ran into problems with that (but not on my dime).

Back to Subud, it's draw for me is that they handle "crisis." Everybody has religious and spiritual experiences. And sometimes very intense ones, as per Dr. Stanilov Grof. So the risk in powerful religious experiences one might end up in a psych ward medicated out. I don't think Subud people handle this anymore. David, a Subud old-timer said to me last summer that back in the 60' and 70's followers would go into crisis. He said he never sees it anymore.

Everyone in this group is old and they all seem to have a book fetish. My helper kept handing me book after book even after I told him I can't read all this. And he insists on driving me everywhere to latihan. He and David want to see where I live. Lol, I live in a camper after getting sick. Not much to see I tell them and beg off. We have very different attitudes about healthcare. Subud seems to be a shell of what it once was, where everyone is god drunk.

So though I am not an ex-member yet, the handwriting is on the wall. I suffer from mold illness that keeps me out of any water damaged building at this point. Most people are skeptical of such an illness as 95% of the doctors out there deny it exists, as does the CDC. So I can't do latihan in most places and I'll never be able to do a national or regional meeting not kbowing what I'm walking into mold-wise. But I'll have some fun with them before it's over.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2024 09:17PM by kjstrat.

I'm 67 and joined Subud last year. A friend had been in Subud for years before he passed away two years ago. So when I reached out to the organization out of curiousity. I met with a helper for three months and was duly opened. Being opened felt more symbolic than anything, but I realized I've been in and our of cults for a long time. I realize now, just recently, that my birth family was like a cult. We were Catholics.

Latihan reminds me of Pentacostal prayer as much as anything. In that respect it has a certain appeal to me. Human beings live with a kind of divided consciousness between our conscious and subconscious minds. It's as if we live with one foot in the animal world and the other foot in a much finer world. So I'm always up to exploring that.

The problem is socialization and the inevitable peer pressure of any group. Back in the 80's I fell in with a Tibetan Buddhist center and learned so much. The inner silence of meditation, anger mgm't and practical vizualizations. I moved on to another city and 12 years later I took up briefly with a Shambala center. Trungpa had died in the 80's and the teachers were Americans by then. It felt manipulative and I didn't last long.

Same with the Gurdjieff groups. I was very lucky, my first mentor disabused me of my guru complex and steered my into the "12 steps" to deal with some personal issues. After 7 years our association ended when he said he didn't think he could do anything more for me. Keith was one of the most sincerely compassionate people I have ever know. Meanwhile I'd check out other 4th Way groups, more formally organized, that were manipulative and even sexual. Shambala ran into problems with that (but not on my dime).

Back to Subud, it's draw for me is that they handle "crisis." Everybody has religious and spiritual experiences. And sometimes very intense ones, as per Dr. Stanilov Grof. So the risk in powerful religious experiences one might end up in a psych ward medicated out. I don't think Subud people handle this anymore. David, a Subud old-timer said to me last summer that back in the 60' and 70's followers would go into crisis. He said he never sees it anymore.

Everyone in this group is old and they all seem to have a book fetish. My helper kept handing me book after book even after I told him I can't read all this. And he insists on driving me everywhere to latihan. He and David want to see where I live. Lol, I live in a camper after getting sick. Not much to see I tell them and beg off. We have very different attitudes about healthcare. Subud seems to be a shell of what it once was, where everyone is god drunk.

So though I am not an ex-member yet, the handwriting is on the wall. I suffer from mold illness that keeps me out of any water damaged building at this point. Most people are skeptical of such an illness as 95% of the doctors out there deny it exists, as does the CDC. But I'll have some fun with them before it's over.

You sound wise and have a delightful, droll sense of humor.

Do not relinquish up either of those!

Astoundingly wise for a teacher to advise 12 Step work. Ouspensky, from various reports, exhibited classic alcoholic behaviors by the time he died. Gurdjieff reportedly pressured people to drink heavily - despotic and despicable.

Mold illness is only too real. Upstairs neighbor got sick from mold in her apartment and had to lawyer up to force our idiot landlady to remedy it.

I have thought for a long time that latihan is like the Pentecostal 'speaking in tongues'. You may not be able to control the process.

Does anyone remember Ben Fiedorowicz in Subud? He was quite a character. I never knew what to make of him. He certainly had an eventful life. He was also known as Machmud, Rohan and Rachmadi Fiedorowicz. Originally from Newcastle, he also lived in Australia and Austria.

Hi Jupiter, I would like to thank you so much. Your intelligent and insightful message helped me to finally put the last pieces of the puzzle together for me. On why my mother is like an alien, with no feeling or emotions at all. She is an extremely senior member of Subud and has been for years. As children we were taken to Subud camps each year and of course Subud was mentioned regularly by my mother. I remember when people would ring up to speak to my mother and I would say "She is at Latihan" as if they would know what Latihan was? LOL! To be honest, we children all thought it was just a bunch of losers and weirdos. All the members we met were pretty tragic and strange, so none of us children ever had any interest in being involved. We didn't bother finding out anything about Subud as we had no interest, much to my mother's disappointment. We were certainly pretty bitter about Subud though, as my mother seemed to give more attention and support to anyone and everyone in Subud, whilst completely ignoring us kids. We used to call them "her waifs and strays", that she spent all her time and energy on, whilst our needs were completely ignored. When you said the levels of "emotional neglect were astonishing" you nailed it on the head Jupiter. Whilst I realised that we kids were ignored because she was spending her time and energy on Subud, I never put two-and-two together that Subud's teachings were behind her behaviour. I thought there was something wrong with her, not that Subud had changed her into a robot with her family but a kind person with anything Subud related. Your post was revelatory for me. When you mentioned how Subud requires you to surrender desires and intellectual rigour and leave decision-making to God, this was when the penny dropped for me. I remember her using these same words, about having to "surrender". When helpers told her she should marry someone she didn't want to and she told us she cried but had to "surrender to God". He was abusive to us children and created much damage to our whole family and she would tell us that "God had told her that there would be valuable learning at the end of it and she had to endure it to learn the lesson". Nevermind that the abuse affected all of us children, as well as her. Apparently we all had to suffer for her 'character-building' or ascension in the eyes of God. That is a pretty strange God that requires or asks that. This is exactly what you referred to as "dysfunctional, illogical choices" whilst trying to find the lesson God is trying to teach. You used the words "no connection to me, no protective instinct". Once again, 100% the same. My mother showed no protective instincts for me and my sisters. She did however show protective instincts for my brother, reflecting her misogynistic beliefs, no doubt fueled by patriarchal Subud.
We children were all named by Bapak. Thank goodness we all got 'normal' names and not the usual weird ones.
Thanks Jupiter, for taking the time to write your message, which finally allowed me to piece together why my mother was the source of complete emotional abuse as a child, and that continues today. I don't believe she has felt a real emotion in 50 years. And she certainly sees anyone questioning the damage that has been done by Subud as just another barrier to overcome through surrendering to God.