Landmark Grad starts CuddleParty biz
Posted by:
Dynamix
()
Date: August 11, 2005 12:42PM
Yeah you're right. None of us have actually been, so it's impossible to say if it is manipulative and controlling. However, its obvious links to LE make it a 9 on the creep-o-meter for me. I'm staying away. And should landmark spawn any more children, I'll be staying away from them too.
Landmark Grad starts CuddleParty biz
Posted by:
MarkusWelch
()
Date: August 11, 2005 01:21PM
Quote
Acid Reindeer
Caligari, though you keep harping on this damage or whatever that could happen, like I said, possibility does not equal certainty. if you looked into the folkways of any culture on Earth you will find losing identity as a central human experience. you will a lot more freaky business than Cuddle Party on this planet of ours. try ritualistic scarification ceremonies, group sex, Appalachian snakebiting cults, those crazy Japanese phallus festivals. shocking I know.
if you have any specific information on the specific dangers of this group, then by all means share it. not suspicions, mind you, actual information. the subjective impressions of journalists calling the experience creepy does not count. if people who went to these events started popping up on these forums and calling this a manipulative group then I would consider that more substantial.
I think I will stop discussing this as I keep repeating myself and so do you all.
Does one need to experience the event as a participant in order to properly criticize it? The logic you are using here, Acid Reindeer, is that the entire event is new to one's experience and cannot be criticized by someone who has not participated. This is opposed to the idea that an event can be observed by a non-participant, and that the result of observation could be that the group in question is a manipulative group.
Landmark Grad starts CuddleParty biz
Posted by:
caligari
()
Date: August 11, 2005 07:06PM
Quote
Acid Reindeer
Caligari, though you keep harping on this damage or whatever that could happen, like I said, possibility does not equal certainty.
What I am doing is predicting outcome based on activity. If you put human beings into a staged situation where they are doing a specific type of action, the results from those actions can be predicted. The prediction may turn out false, true or partially true. The prediction I offer is that organizing indiscriminate, intimate, non-sexual behavior -- prolonged intimate full-body contact of a large group of strangers -- will lead to a confusion of personal boundaries, trust and regression to identification of others on predominately a physical basis.
Quote
Acid Reindeer
if you looked into the folkways of any culture on Earth you will find losing identity as a central human experience. you will a lot more freaky business than Cuddle Party on this planet of ours. try ritualistic scarification ceremonies, group sex, Appalachian snakebiting cults, those crazy Japanese phallus festivals. shocking I know.
If you consider falling off the top of a three story building you can look at situations of falling from greater heights like from the Eiffel Tower, a mountain cliff, an airplane, etc. None of those situations recommend falling off a three story building.
Quote
Acid Reindeer
if you have any specific information on the specific dangers of this group, then by all means share it. not suspicions, mind you, actual information. the subjective impressions of journalists calling the experience creepy does not count. if people who went to these events started popping up on these forums and calling this a manipulative group then I would consider that more substantial.
I think I will stop discussing this as I keep repeating myself and so do you all.
I have seen in similar conditions to Cuddle Parties, people act psychologically regressive.
-- Caligari
Landmark Grad starts CuddleParty biz
Posted by:
Acid Reindeer
()
Date: August 11, 2005 07:49PM
Quote
Dynamix
Yeah you're right. None of us have actually been, so it's impossible to say if it is manipulative and controlling. However, its obvious links to LE make it a 9 on the creep-o-meter for me. I'm staying away. And should landmark spawn any more children, I'll be staying away from them too.
fair enough.
Landmark Grad starts CuddleParty biz
Posted by:
Acid Reindeer
()
Date: August 11, 2005 07:54PM
Quote
MarkusWelch
Does one need to experience the event as a participant in order to properly criticize it? The logic you are using here, Acid Reindeer, is that the entire event is new to one's experience and cannot be criticized by someone who has not participated.
not really. just asking you all, if you would, to hold out for more evidence to support your conclusions before you leap to them.
Landmark Grad starts CuddleParty biz
Posted by:
Acid Reindeer
()
Date: August 11, 2005 08:02PM
Quote
caligariQuote
Acid Reindeer
Caligari, though you keep harping on this damage or whatever that could happen, like I said, possibility does not equal certainty.
What I am doing is predicting outcome based on activity. If you put human beings into a staged situation where they are doing a specific type of action, the results from those actions can be predicted. The prediction may turn out false, true or partially true. The prediction I offer is that organizing indiscriminate, intimate, non-sexual behavior -- prolonged intimate full-body contact of a large group of strangers -- will lead to a confusion of personal boundaries, trust and regression to identification of others on predominately a physical basis.
yeah. it could, yes. I understand the concept.
you seem to have a half-completed thought here, because I do not note any proof that in this particular instance these customers get hurt.
you may not like it and some writers may have described the experience as creepy, still, I would like something more definite.
Quote
I have seen in similar conditions to Cuddle Parties, people act psychologically regressive.
yes they do. and...?
Landmark Grad starts CuddleParty biz
Posted by:
Acid Reindeer
()
Date: August 11, 2005 08:13PM
Quote
caligariQuote
Acid Reindeer
if you looked into the folkways of any culture on Earth you will find losing identity as a central human experience. you will a lot more freaky business than Cuddle Party on this planet of ours. try ritualistic scarification ceremonies, group sex, Appalachian snakebiting cults, those crazy Japanese phallus festivals. shocking I know.
If you consider falling off the top of a three story building you can look at situations of falling from greater heights like from the Eiffel Tower, a mountain cliff, an airplane, etc. None of those situations recommend falling off a three story building.
do these situations entail the kind of risks you say they do, though? no, I mean, cultures all of the world have extreme ways of breaking down the ego and they have not only strengthened the person but strengthened the society.
sure they entail risks, which makes them worth doing. not that I think that a couple of hours of cuddling entails that much risk. (though, again, I've not done it...)
Landmark Grad starts CuddleParty biz
Posted by:
elena
()
Date: August 11, 2005 08:32PM
Quote
Acid Reindeer
Elena, Landmark likes to copyright certain phrases, this much I know. I wonder only (out of curiosity) which phrases Mr. CuddleParty had appropriated, though I do not care that much.Quote
elena
V. Rackets™: The Payoff and the Cost
daft Landmarkians! rackets comes from the work of the psychotherapist Eric Berne.
Well, in just a quick look at a paragraph in the guy's biography I see such Landmark or est-type phrases or "concepts" as:
~creating a space~
~safe space~
~fully self-expressed~
Some of us are "hyper-sensitive" to Landmarky-type nonsense words and phrases. They actually mean little to nothing, something else entirely, or their opposites, in fact. Consider the ~safe space~ "meme." I don't know if they still use this but it's from the old est "training," where extreme forms of emotional manipulation and exploitation went on and was the last place you might want to reveal intimate, painful memories unless you like the idea of cult-like group indoctrination. To me the stuff's like kryptonite or something.
Ellen
Landmark Grad starts CuddleParty biz
Posted by:
glam
()
Date: August 11, 2005 10:12PM
Was it here or somewhere else that I read the article about the core group of "disciples" that follow the creators from cuddle session to cuddle session? The whole thing just reeks of LGAT hypersexuality. To say "cultures all of the world have extreme ways of breaking down the ego and they have not only strengthened the person but strengthened the society" sounds very much like the kind of defense someone could posit when discussing any cult.
Landmark Grad starts CuddleParty biz
Posted by:
Acid Reindeer
()
Date: August 12, 2005 12:10AM
Quote
elena
Well, in just a quick look at a paragraph in the guy's biography I see such Landmark or est-type phrases or "concepts" as:
~creating a space~
~safe space~
~fully self-expressed~
the "creating a space" phrase did originate in est (AFAIK) and did diffuse throughout the culture.
the other two just sort of form part of the new age/therapeutic style background radiation of the culture at present that has come with the feminization of the culture. safe space, that one turns up all the time. last week I attended an (actual) sex party and they emphasized the safe space concept there too. if you look for est-[i:2ef3e8d542]type[/i:2ef3e8d542] concepts you can pretty much discover them anywhere.
one, because a lot of the concepts did not originate with est. two, because est did originate concepts into the cultural mainstream. three, because if you look for anything you will find that thing.
Quote
Some of us are "hyper-sensitive" to Landmarky-type nonsense words and phrases.
me too, actually. and I learnt through experience that the Landmarkian meaning of support can mean the opposite of its everyday meaning. I value the ideals of safe space, for example, I just hate the language.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.