Stu, as someone who admires some of your work, especially on the Amma list, I think you are way off base here. The most important thing to the SCARIEST cult apologists (scariest in caps because I mean SCARY) like the vampires Gordon Melton and Massimo Introvigne, or their pals Becky Moore and Eileen Barker is to discredit the entire notion of "brainwashing". They wish to destroy the very notion that a person's mental will can be subverted by another. If that key point of "anti-cult" activists can be attacked, then ALL the cults (who literally PAY the Meltons, Introvignes, etc.) will have a free pass forever.

As someone who fancies yourself as a "libertarian", I would imagine you are quite aware of the dangers of the "cult of the state/personality" in places like Kim's North Korea or Ceacescu's Romania. You can accept that people (right?) could be brainwashed by a state apparatus to do things that they wouldn't normally do. People like Katie, Browne, Tolle, Ikeda (soka gokkai), Moon, Il Chi Lee, Scientology, etc. should be viewed as "virtual states". While not holding state power, they have money, security forces, propaganda wings, political contacts, press contacts, and most importantly, KNOW HOW TO BRAINWASH PEOPLE.

In effect, by putting everything on the individual, you are taking away the responsibility of society to stand up to dangerous groups, some too strong, powerful, and slick for weak-willed individuals to handle. An outright ban on LGAT's is wrong and unconstitutional, but I do think the government should be more aggressive in how it treats religions, and not give them such a free pass, whether they are televangelists Muslim extremists, fringe cults, etc. Just tightening the tax laws would be a start.

Also, to Anticult, while I agree with you Katie, I would advise you not turning this into a "grand conspiracy" and lump people like Stuart or Jody in with Katie or Steven Sashen (I agree with you about those two!). Remember, not everybody is going to figure out things as quickly as you , so don't judge people too harshly for not dumping ALL their former idols as quickly as you might wish them to. Also, you still seem to have an attachment to that "ericksonian" stuff and Bandler, so you are one to talk! Stuart is hardly a "kool-aid drinker" and neither is Jody, you should view them as potential allies, not enemies. Presenting things like Katies' Hitler rants (thank you for unearthing that stuff!) is much more effective than calling Stuart and Jody "Katie supporters". They're not, they just don't have as harsh a view of her as you or I do... so far.

Heck, Jody, if you're reading this, here's a challenge, you've been critical of Katie in the past, throw those Nazi quotes up on your page, show us you're not the Katie Koolaid drinker people have been calling you.

Shakti, you do make good points.
But I am not lumping all those guys together other than their names, I don't know anything about Stuart Resnick other than the few posts here, and I have not said he is drinking Katie Kool-Aid....yet.
I do agree using the terms "Katie supporter" is not the correct term, and retract it.
I like the phrase mentioned though..."running interference"...

I did get pissed-off at Stuart Resnick for insulting one of the decent members of this forum with the "alien implant" bullshit. I find that insulting and inappropriate.

We all tend to see things through our own filters, of course.
Also, I am actually anti-Bandler, even though was quite smart in his day, which is long past. People should stay far away from Bandler at this point.

Dr. Milton Erickson though, I think was a genius, and ethical, but his work has been abused. But he was one of the greatest hypnotherapists of all time.

As far as Guruphiliac, I do recall he asked for some quotes from Byron Katie along the lines of "I Am God" kinda thing. Some of the quotes so far from that suppressed book of hers, Losing The Moon, are saying that in her own way. But since the title of that book of Byron Katie is about Non-Dualism, one does see the cross-over in belief? (professed belief)
I find it fascinating how Byron Katie changed her marketing tactics right after that book Losing The Moon, and then pulled that book off the shelves. There are people selling that book used for $150 bucks. (there are still scanned pdf copies online...for now).

But as far as Stuart Resnick, here is a blast from him from 1996 about Landmark Education!
Good advice.
______________________
[groups.google.com]

Oct 8, 1996

Paul Horne wrote:
> [snip] ... regardless of what you think about "the work" or Landmark
> or Erhart (he was a freak!), the 3 days and an evening you'll spend in
> the Forum will definitely give you access to seeing your life in a new
> way, and this almost ALWAYS turns into major transformations in people's
> lives. I don't know anyone who's had a bad experience with the Forum,
> but I know a few who've had problems with Landmark or the Advanced
> Courses.


OK, but there's one thing we need to be careful about. In just about ANY
organization, people who are dissatisfied tend to leave without saying
much, while those who got what they wanted stay & speak up. This can
lead to the illusion that people are "almost always" satisfied even when
a majority may not be. Obviously, the less open to criticism an
organization is (i.e., the more people fear being mocked for expressing
opposing views) the stronger this effect is.

Stuart

___________________________________________________

but as far as a conspiracy theory...why is it that Steven Sashen always seems to have his fingers in everything Byron Katie? One could list dozens of examples off the top of one's head.
Inquiring minds would like to know...

Thanks for your intelligent response!

"I did get pissed-off at Stuart Resnick for insulting one of the decent members of this forum with the "alien implant" bullshit. I find that insulting and inappropriate. "

Yes, I would agree, that was why I felt compelled to respond to BOTH of you. Mao Tse Tung, Hitler, Khomeini, Applewhite, Bin Laden, Jim Jones, Charlie Manson, NONE of them needed an "alien implant". But they were able to get people to KILL other humans or themselves with joy and religious ecstasy. If that isn't brainwashing, I don't know what it is. Just because Stuart feels Nietzchean, Randian, Darwinian enough that HE can survive, doesn't mean that everyone is strong enough to escape brainwashing.

Well Shakti, I don't know much about Stuart Resnick, sounds like folks in the Non-Dual area are familiar with his writings?
But if he feels he is Uber, he is sadly mistaken. Even a casual glance at his writings shows he is in the thick of it.

I don't know much about this Siddha-Yoga thing, but it does seem Byron Katie has scooped up some Ex-Siddha folks. Even in the book Losing The Moon, its full of old-school Guru-type stuff in questions from her followers.
The "new" Byron Katie got rid of all the stuff, as that is not going to sell to soccer moms.

And of course, the people who really get hurt are the folks who are the nicest folks, and these are the folks Byron Katie targets, nice people, too-nice probably, who are in serious pain. She goes after those folks like a hungry hungry hippo and eats them alive. Burns them alive even, like a "baby being loving burned alive in a firepit?" Or as Byron Katie says..."Love is a murderer".

Quote
shakti
Also, to Anticult, while I agree with you Katie, I would advise you not turning this into a "grand conspiracy" and lump people like Stuart or Jody in with Katie or Steven Sashen (I agree with you about those two!). Remember, not everybody is going to figure out things as quickly as you , so don't judge people too harshly for not dumping ALL their former idols as quickly as you might wish them to. Also, you still seem to have an attachment to that "ericksonian" stuff and Bandler, so you are one to talk! Stuart is hardly a "kool-aid drinker" and neither is Jody, you should view them as potential allies, not enemies. Presenting things like Katies' Hitler rants (thank you for unearthing that stuff!) is much more effective than calling Stuart and Jody "Katie supporters". They're not, they just don't have as harsh a view of her as you or I do... so far. .

Shakti, how can you expect Anticult (or anyone else here) to view Stuart as a potential ally, when he is out and out denying the cultic aspects of Byron Katie? That doesn't make any sense!

Apparently he also hurled an insulting comment in my direction regarding "alien implants", although it seems the moderator edited that out at some point. (Thanks, RR.)

speaking of Steven Sashen...he was running a seminar called QUANTUM WEALTH recently it appears.
[blogsearch.google.com]

Lets see...Quantum Wealth:

Quantum: "The smallest discrete amount of any quantity".

hmmm....

Quote
The Anticult
speaking of Steven Sashen...he was running a seminar called QUANTUM WEALTH recently it appears.
[blogsearch.google.com]

Lets see...Quantum Wealth:

Quantum: "The smallest discrete amount of any quantity".

hmmm....

Anticult, you already pointed this out, but I think it bears repeating. Steven Sashen "also runs a site about the Acai juice berry SCAM...and guess what...he says its a scam, and then sells you by the end of it! More Mind-Splitting Weirdness...full of old-school sales 101 techniques...(not very subtle on this one)

[[url=http://www.acai-plus-exposed.com]Acai-Plus Exposed – The secret truth about Acai Plus and Triunity Corporation[/url]]

The alien implants are still intact...

[forum.culteducation.com]

but seriously, people have explained how the Byron Katie books and now her YouTube videos are being used as defacto "brainwashing" tools, designed to get people to go to the 9 Day LGAT, then the 100 Day Program...etc.

Byron Katie has not flooded YouTube with her videos for no reason.
And Byron Katie even tells BS about her videos on YouTube, (in a video on YouTube!!) when she says that people are just putting them up on their own accord.

Bullshit.
To release those private videos like that, they need the signed disclaimers and releases that Byron Katie forces people to sign before they attend her LGAT seminars.

No one has yet explained how Byron Katie's constant confabulations are ok.
(they are ok in BK-land, as since there is no Reality anyway, there is no such thing as lying)

Quote
The Anticult
The alien implants are still intact...

[forum.culteducation.com]

Oh. Well that's just sad.