in other new age religions they teach that it is wrong
to kill or that it is ok to kill as long as it promotes
the church, in landmark its like an open book.
it doesnt mean anything.

Savernake,

You hit the head -on the - nail( :D ) - borne in the US and then "spread" ...

Something to do with "consumerizing?

PAX

From what I'm beginning to understand about Landmark, if you killed someone, you shouldn't feel sorry for them because they somehoe manifested that in their life - they were responsible. Just like the Tsnunami victims created the earthquake that wiped them out.

Landmark seems to take great concepts and use them to the extremes. For example, it's great to live authentically but, if your alarm is ringing and your bed is comfortable, you just may have to ignore your authentic self and get your ass to work - especially if you want to keep food on your table. Of course, that is probably too logical for Landmark since it would require deductive reasoning, e.g. I don't go to work, I don't have money, I don't eat!!

Quote

From what I'm beginning to understand about Landmark

There's a lot of information here about Landmark, as well as other coercive groups. Take a read:

[www.culteducation.com]

[culteducation.com]

It helps to have an overview of what these groups are about.

its very interesting interesting to read landmarks commandments.
sometimes u learn from what isnt there instead of what is ?

if there are landmark grads reading this , i may have just
blown their minds :roll:

Mikinos wrote:
"From what I'm beginning to understand about Landmark, if you killed someone, you shouldn't feel sorry for them because they somehoe manifested that in their life - they were responsible. Just like the Tsnunami victims created the earthquake that wiped them out."


I think that one of the things to understand about Landmark is that they are "about" creating change in people. Now, obviously the logic of the Tsunami victims being responsible doesn't hold up... that is an unfortunate, insenstive exaggeration, that is completely rididulous. But I think what they're trying to get at is a mindset to get people over thinking that their limitations are imposed externally and can't be overcome. Obviously, if a Tsunami comes, it doesn't matter how empowered your mind is, or where your subjective reality is at... if a giant wave sweeps away your objective physical entity, then you are gone, that's it. And people didn't bring that on themselves by some kind of thought karma or something.

There is, I believe, an attempt in Landmark to completely dislocate people from their pasts, their identities, their sense of limitations. Like, "you want to be a millionaire?" "You REALLY want to be a millionaire?" "Do you want to be a millionaire so bad that you are ready to erase everything in your life that prevents you from being a millionaire? Including your past, your sense of self, your ego, your ways of communicating with people, your ways of communicating with yourself, everything?" Ok, then here we go...

It's kind of like, if you were to hypnotize a Navy Seal or something, tell him that he is invincible, he is nothing but a warrior, nothing can harm him, he will feel no pain no matter what happens, he has no past, he will only acccomplish the mission, then drop him into the war zone, and let him go. He won't hold himself back at all, but his beliefs aren't necessarily grounded in reality, either. There is no reasoning behind the idea that he is invincible. Here, Landmark makes the philosophical leap to say, basically, that if he believes and "creates" the reality of invincibility, then he really will be invincible. Which is unprovable... although a compelling idea. In reality maybe we could say he is "more invincible", and is not holding himself back from "his invinciblility"... but some high speed .50 caliber rounds will rip him apart just the same.

And, that leads to what is for me one of the central flaws with Landmark.
For let's just say, the warrior REALLY wants to be invincible. Well, the invincible remain that way by being beyond attack. For instance, a general is more invincible than a navy seal, who is in harms way. The true way for him to be invincible would be to quit the navy, and spend his time surfing in Hawaii or something like that. The very same "empowered" state he is in, is in reality an externally imposed programming that is jacking him up to do something for the organization that did the programming (ie. he is not empowered in himself, but more as an object). Landmark people may get "programmed" to be more successful, but they are also being programmed within a group context and also programmed to, essentially, serve the group. You can easily witness, and anybody here will testify, that before they do the forum, they want "something", success, more love, etc. After they do the forum, they want to be something more in line with Landmark concepts "to be truly authentic person", etc. After they do the advanced course, they want to promote Landmark and its mission of transforming the world (!!!)

I think this is what is so alarming and distasteful about Landmark to everybody... not that it takes apart peoople's realities necessarily, but that it sucks them in the way it does...

*sheeesh* another long post. This was going to be a short one...


Rough

I've just had an excellent example of how Landmark's unhealthy. A friend of ours recently went to a Landmark seminar with our other Landmark friend. He had no idea what it was about, but he was really put off by the hard sell and told them to bugger off in no uncertain terms. Afterward, the Landmark friend kept saying to him, "Isn't there anything in your life you're unhappy with?". When the non-Landmark friend said "No", the Landmark friend persisted, saying, "There [i:76f7130e98]must[/i:76f7130e98] be something you're unhappy with, that you want to change." He was desperate for some chink in his armour, something to get his hooks into -- it was more important to him to find this than to accept that his friend might actually be happy with his life.

As my husband puts it, the problem with Landmark is that claim to "fix" you -- and if you don't need "fixing" then they try to break you so that you do. and if you resist, they insist that you're broken anyway and just don't realise it.

Here is a piece of strange conversations I had this afternoon with a relative of mine who involved in LGAT for years.

He said: “When people push you, don’t push back.” I said: “Fine.”
He said: “When people curse you, don’t curse back.” I said: “Sure”
He said: “When people wrong you, don’t take revenge.” I said: “Of course.”
He said “You’re just a narrow minded person who can’t tolerate anything.” I said: “Didn’t I just agree to all of what you’ve just said?”
He got so angry and returned to the beginning of the questions one more time.

:cry:

Do ya ever notice (when thinking logically) how apparent some things are...like "zombie-like" behavior at the Tues night guest nite or the how most come out of the "self-improve" class looking all-so-the-same rather than having had themselves improved in individual ways AND how 'bout that zealot thing that they all show? :cry:

PAX

Geez, I remember that Tuesday night. I'll never forget it. All the people I saw in the big seminar room before my Introduction were asking me what I thought... "oh, isn't it so great?" they don't even know precisely is so great, do they? My favorite was "you're going to love this, trust me!".. "the people here are sooo great, you'll see." I mean, this sounds like a commercial for Perkins or something. "the new Perkins... lower prices, better menu." except it's the new EST, I guess.