Ultaware,
Yeah, the intensity of the physical-emotional reactions and changes
they manifest is really upsetting. I remember, I hadn't seen my girlfriend for over a month, and she had done the forum. While we were at dinner, she got up three times to take a piss. And each time she asked me if it was ok! Like, "I'm going to go to the bathroom now, ok?" I thought about it later and it was just part of this kind of psychedelic trippiness that she seemed to be stewing in. It stood out in my memory because, I remembered so many nights when she had literally drank a bottle of wine, some water, plus a drink or two with dinner, and then spent the night in bed with me, woke up late, and the left for work in a hurry the next morning without even stopping to use the bathroom. But now, suddenly, after Landmark, she had this pee obsession and has to piss three times during a two hour trip to a restaurant.

Really, I found, that the more I obsessed on these manifestations, the more it messed me up. Because, I could see some of the ways in which she was being controlled... and I could sense that there was somebody over there (the forum leader or coaches or whatever) that were pulling her strings. And there is almost a sexual element to it, to the jealous way that it made me feel. Like, she's kind of blocked out from in a way, but she'll run down to the center and kiss ass like crazy to anybody that's been in Landmark for a couple years, and let herself be "coached" and "torn down and built back up". It was very upsetting... I think I was somewhat fortunate because one of her points of "integrity" was to be able to express her love to me and to allow that to happen.

STILL, I came perilously close to f***ing it up prematurely, because I kept arguing with her about the logic of it, the unfairness, the "how can you let this happen to you" type stuff, etc. And after a while, she would just get bored, upset with that. And if you dig deeper they kind of explode *smile* but in a way maybe that's helpful. I don't know. But the main point is, if you're just whining and complaining and telling them they've been ripped off, conned, brainwashed, and that they're stupid and they suck, then eventually you'll drive them away. It's kind of like, they've taken some kind of pill, and you have to be nice to them and find out what the hell is going on with them, but the way to do that is to be understanding, and to bring fun, interaction, conversation and pleasure to the table, and not to just rag out on them. You have to be strong, YOU have to be prepared to lose them, YOU have to be ready to walk away, YOU have to be in control, YOU have to be ready for the challenge... basically, you have to be the parent figure, and be strong no matter what happens.

I mean, if you have red hair, and she's always hated your red hair but settled for being with you because she had low self esteem, but now she did landmark and she's on some confidence kick, then, uhhh, sorry, you'll lose her cause you got red hair and "everything is meaningless." *heh*

But if she stays with you, you kind of have to be able to open up that discourse with her about exactly what is landmark, what does she feel, what does she want... and hopefully you can guide her to a place of strength. Obsessing about how she's being mind-f***ed will only make you feel miserable and make it impossible for you to deal with her emotionally. I mean, that's my take on it. She's been manipulated... you have to manipulate, too. Of course, all that stuff about the physiology, them physical space, the brainwashing, all that is true, in my experience. But it's also true that people like their freedoms, people get bored rather quickly, and that Landmark isn't likely to meet their lofty and high-minded expectations once they really get into the daily grind of it.

But jeeeeeez, the more I think about it, what a sucky thing for someone you care about to do Landmark. If only they actually had more of the "integrity" that they boast about so loudly, then maybe it might be better.


Rough

One of the tactics you can use is to tell your friend to use concrete terms rather than the abstractions of Landmark lingo. Tell him to give you a concrete answer out of his own life experience as to what exactly he means when he uses the lingo. Anchoring someone to concrete reality may help to bring him down from the out of control "high."
As someone who was targeted by a power est-ee and disconnected from concrete reality (which resulted in psychosis for me) I speak from that experience. It would also help if you learned the lingo so you can speak in his terms, but DON'T learn It inside a seminar or It could happen to you too! Hope this helps a bit.
Best,
IveGotIt

Quote
Mikinos
What goes on at these leadership courses? Does he learn how to lead himself or recruit others?

I don't think there is any real difference in this. Leading and recruiting MEANS the same thing in this. It is a chain reaction of trainer, to trainee, to trainer.....in an infinite chain that keeps going until either the chain is broken, or everyone is sucked into the action, whichever comes first. .
IveGotIt