what was it exactly that got u to see the manipulation.
was it ongoing and then finally u just decided to leave
or was there anything in particular that go your brain
cells working.

There are many horror stories on the internet of various companies or corporations or departments that were "seeded" and then taken over by Landmarkers. This group are like weeds, and weeds of the most noxious kind - the ones that suck all the nutrients out of the soil or all the oxygen out of the water and overwhelm the environment so that only they can "survive" and eventually turn it into a degraded cesspool of mindless LEC-speak, LEC-thought, and LEC-behavior.


Please tell us about the clues you had that something was wrong with the group and its programs - however small or insignificant. Are you able to recall the "cult conversation" and could you reproduce it here? Where did you get the information that it might be a cult, or similar to a cult? Many here would be interested, as some of us have friends or relatives involved.


Also, there are reporters working on stories about Landmark in Australia and Canada who would be interested in what you have to say. For obvious reasons, it is very difficult to find people who are willing to speak openly about Landmark - those who were unhappy with what was done to them or feel as though they were victimized. Both L. Ron Hubbard and Werner Erhard joked openly about their ability to intimidate people, frighten people, cause people to doubt their own minds, and silence people. They were also both master hypnotists.


Ellen

It's a long story so I won't go into the details here, I will be writing a longer essay about it over the next few months that I will be happy to share.

In my defense, I am a successful, intelligent and self-aware person. I decided to do the Forum completely because some friends were doing it. I had no idea what it was and I certainly would never have otherwise chosen to do something like that. My life was going extremely well and I was not wanting for anything.

I did the LF in March 2002. I had originally registered for Nov. 2001 and put it off a couple of times for personal reasons (better things to do!). One of my close friends and close colleague did do it in Nov. along with another friend who flew in to do it with us (he had done it previously and got us into it - he's a successful, rational person and does not otherwise associate with the company). A staff member tried to talk me into changing a family event so I could attend, I thought they were crazy and did not agree. But I had already paid and my friend loved it (she stopped being involved a few months later).

I liked what I got out of the LF. There was a lot of it that reminded me of psychology and philopshy that I had studied before. I can see now, that I also experienced the physical and mental manipulations - I was not aware of those factors until just recently.

After that I did the seminar and the Advanced Course. I figured why not, what harm?? Frankly, I didn't get much out of the AC. I still had my natural skepticism intact. I was then targeted for further work by a course supervisor and my seminar leader. I was asked to assist - I had no idea what that was. Since I was leaving my job and taking the summer off I figured I had the time and why not. I do volunteer work from time to time. The assisting I did was another opportunity for them to deprive me of sleep, taking care of my well being and to be emotionally worked over. They brough in big guns - high level staff members, etc.

Somehow, I found myself agreeing to enter the Introduction Leaders Program. I had no idea what it was. I didn't even know what an introduction was - I had never been to one. I wasn't sure it was something I particularly wanted, but I wasn't working full-time, I had given my word to attend (I am one of the few people around Landmark with natural integrity, most use the word as a manipulative tool) and I liked some of the people. I was naturally resistant to a lot of the things they taught, but I got successfully through the program. I had not intended to become an introduction leader and be a free salesperson for LE. But I did want to coach the next ILP with my friends and be like the people I admired. So I agreed to be an IL. The agreements we had to make in terms of time were small - of course they then tried (key word - tried) to manipulate us into doing more. Dupe! At this time I also got into a relationship with a man (boy!) who was also heavily involved with LE and the leadership program.

Like being involved with LE, this ended up being an abusive relationship. Landmark leaders knew this and the coaching I received in the LE jargon and mindset had me believe it was my failure.

Throughout, I complained a lot about the business practices and other things that went on around the Center. The Center Manager despised me because I was always pointing out hypocrisy and lies (when she had initilaly targeted me as her protege and future center manager (as if!)) - after I somehow disappointed her she would always humiliate me at group meetings in revenge. They had hired me to be on staff temporarily, but backed out at the last minute. Luckily for me.

I decided to not coach anymore and stopped leading. Then, somehow, the Center Manager had me agreeing in a split second to coach the next program. I found myself becoming an impulsive decisionmaker around Landmark - I have never been that before in my life!!!! They then manipulate you if you try to change your mind - I read the Psychology of Influence a few months later.

I quit midway through this program and left LE completely for a couple of months. Once you decide to leave the staff basically considers you dead so my getting out of there was pretty easy. Most of my fellow ILPers also left. We had been the most successful recruiting machine in the world for Landmark. Though, I wasn't. I still had healthy limits on where I would talk about this kind of thing and I was naturally resistant to selling without a commission. When I quit, my boyfriend broke up with me, he was starting another leadership program, despite his failing in the last program and his well-known history with me of 1 instance of physical abuse and financial abuse.

At this time, I had already registered for another course, outside the Center division and considered not doing it...though I had paid $2000 for it. A lot of friends assured me this course would be okay - and actually it's not the same type of pressure as in the Center courses and mainly centers around communication, I think they're just not as good at it and I refused to go along with things - I left when I wanted, didn't do what I didn't want to do and what not. I refused to bow to the pressure that was put on me by various people, including personal friends. I just showed up for parts of the 5 weekends because I had paid. I backed out of another course (a cruise) I had registered for.

After I quit being an introduction leader I wrote a long letter to the CEO expressing my disgust with how I was treated, with their legal agreements, about my conversations with various staff members (including their assistant general counsel) and my disgust with their business practices.

I have to say that I do truly think that most people around LE are not bad-intentioned. And most of the coaching that goes on is from people who are untrained and making things up. That's Landmark's fault. I have no experience with "plants" being put in courses as some people claim. I think I would know - if there are, it comes from outside the Center and the access of assistants and local staff.

I have always questioned the things they told me, but I can see where I was still negatively impacted by the constant coaching, the pressure, the impulsivity it created in me. It destroyed my boundaries and my self-preservation instinct and my ability to choose what is best for myself. It has also given me anxiety - I think from my logic and compassion (the LE philosophies are very demeaning of other people in your life) resisting what my brain has been trained to say and my inability to connect the dots.

The 2 years of heavy involvement with LE was the least successful period of my life financially and most people who are heavily involved have financial difficulties.

In the year since I left the leaders program and in doing this last program my way I have been rebuilding those abilities without even realizing until now why they had gone away. Reading this site has made me see more of the light. I had always questioned some of the philosophies - a lot of them always seemed illogical and to negate the value and free will of others (it's my fault, for instance, if someone chooses other than what I wanted them to!).

My experience at LE was that of constantly being duped - agreeing to do something without full information; which of course you are told is your context, or your past, blah blah. Learning the impact of sleep and sensory deprivation disgusts me. I am a firm believer in informed consent. I would never have agreed to this program had I known all the facts. I am embarrased having been taken in in the way I was, I am a very intelligent person. I am just going to take some learnings that are valuable (and unoriginal) and toss away the rest. I will limit my involvement with most people from LE (most of my friends did the Forum and nothing else and in fact hate it and others that I met there have since left). I will also use my knowledge to find ways to warn others not to make this mistake. And, if possible (I never believed the grandiosity of LE's claims that anything is possible, it's just too stupid for words) close them down.

If anyone has specific questions, I'll be more than happy to answer them offline or on the board if it's not too personal (I also never got up in front a group at LE and shared anything personal and it was implied I was doing something wrong).

Thanks "escapee,"

You will find lots of corroboration here and other newsgroups where people speak freely about Landmark, though it is disturbing that some have recently disappeared or been threatened by Landmark lawyers. You may or may not know that Rick Ross is currently being sued by Landmark. They go after insiders aggressively and I would caution you to protect your identity. There has been some speculation that they have reasons to try to sweep the internet of unflattering information in the same way that the scientologists tried not too long ago. Margaret Singer was forced to remove a chapter from her book, "Cults in Our Midst," where she compared Landmark and similar groups to certain cults and cult-like practices. Same for "Snapping" authors, Conway and Seigelman, who included "est" in their list of cults. You might be interested to read "Guy's" old posts. He hasn't been here for a while, but his are terrific - and spot on.


Ellen

and while all this is going on the american people just continue
to look for bigger and better suv's etc. to keep their minds happy.

its really quite amazing how stupid the people have become.

Thanks for the warning about LE. It really disgusts me, more than anything that they have no respect for the First Amendment and operate in such a manner. Especially given what they preach. We have all these politicians wanting our votes we should let them know about this.

Thanks LEC Escapee for some very good posts. All that really needs to happen is for LEC to be brought out in the open for public discussion. The fact that they fear this (and threaten lawsuits to prevent it) should tell people something straight out. I personally applaud you speaking out. Keep on rolling!

As to exposing Landmark: A lot of newspapers have column writers that are often "old school" type beat writers who have been around a while. These are the hard journalists who are often tenacious and good at investigative reporting and not easily intimidated. I suggest anyone dig up their local paper and you'll find one or two. These are the people in the press I would contact if I were looking to expose LEC.

For those wishing to contact your federal representitives, in Congress try these links:

US House of Representitives:

[www.house.gov]

US Senate:

[www.senate.gov]

Local (State, City and County) politicians tend to have less grit, but a Google search ("New York State Representitive List" for example) can easily show you who your State representitives are.

My experience with politicians is that written (paper, snail mail) inquiries are often responded to in much better detail and more thorough than e-mail. Phone calls are iffy. You often get a friendly staffer who is fairly knowledgeable, takes notes, and is good at listening to people, without saying a whole lot.

Regarding my previous post:

It's been my experience that in the past when people have gotten riled up about change, when presented with ways to cause change on their own, even something as simple as writing a letter to their politician, they often do absolutely nothing instead (or, they just keep looking for bigger and better SUV's to keep their minds happy, as Patrick-Darcy noted).

So, I'm really hoping some of you will prove history wrong and actually follow through. I'm not going to ask for a response, or push again. Just trying to motivate people in, that's all. :)

keep this in mind.

the cults have penetrated american businesses. microsoft
is up to its eyebrows in the cults as are many other companies.

as u make a move to get the politicians aware of what is going on
the businesses that are involved in landmark are gonna make
a move to control the politicians.
they got more money than just about anybody else on the planet.

it seems that since the chrisitan right has gotten control
of the government that the flow of money i believe will
increase. money buys government now.

i dont believe the christian right will make any kind of move
against the cults. some of their people are making victims
out of americans too.

some of their tactics are quite like landmark, scientology.

and also remember that the christian right wants more and
more government money in their pockets so they wont
want to rock the boat .

the right wing politicains make the money more accessable to
the right by breaking down church and state and the church
rewards them with gifts of money of their own. i read a little
pice awhile back on the scientology newsgroup and it seems
that delay in the year 2000 was attempting to allow churches
to place as much as 20 percent of their money in policial
hands. this didnt work out then but i would expect them to
do it very soon.

i just cant figure out why they need government help to supposedly help people when they have plenty of money
to donate and people to work for their political candidates :)

Okay then, I'm curious as to what you suggest be done? I'm all ears.