[b:48b29f02f0]I THINK THIS MAY BE THE GATEWAY INTO THE LANDMARK MIND.[/b:48b29f02f0]

[b:48b29f02f0]I am writing to three groups in this new thread:[/b:48b29f02f0]
1. People who have had loved ones or friends enter Landmark;
2. Any psychologists who have dealt with Landmark people;
3. Landmark and former Landmark people.

Over the last 14 months when speaking with my ex-girlfriend who has done the Forum, Advanced Course and the majority of Forum In Action, I notice that when confronted with issues that demand either concentration or a decision or choice, particularly if it is on a moral issue, she looks blank, continues to stare and says nothing. When asked why she has gone silent, she just maintains her silence with a defiance like I have not witnessed in all my 43 years.

She recently commented to me on an altercation she had with someone where she said:

[b:48b29f02f0][i:48b29f02f0]"My staring and smiling at her while she was talking to me seemed to make her more angry."[/i:48b29f02f0][/b:48b29f02f0]

She went home that night and cried herself to sleep as the person accused her of being rude, (since LE, she really can be). She told me that she should have been stronger by: "blocking it out". She appears not to have a clue what is wrong with her.

I believe that NLPers would refer to the staring and smiling type of technique as "neutralising".

[b:48b29f02f0]My theory is as follows:[/b:48b29f02f0]
Landmark causes the little voice, (reasoning and logic), to be switched off.
The majority of the learning, (excluding the trance induction), is experiential - behavioural
Conversation is either negative or positive, (creating possibility)

These three points allow for the concept of: If it feels good, "do it"

So, when the Landmark person is presented with what they "feel", (not think), as "negative" conversation, (ie: Landmark is potentially injurious to your health, or "stop lying to me" etc.), The Landmarkian blocks out what the other person says.

This "blocking" technique also prevents the Landmarkian from reflecting on their own thoughts and behaviours so in the eyes of others, they keep making the same mistakes caused by the faulty landmark constructs. The "blocking" occurs within, stopping the internal voice of reason, and outside - stopping the voices of others who are not enrolling into their construct.

"Blocking" also seems to prevent them from recovering from the thought reform even after nearly a year out of Landmark. I have heard stories of people who have done the Forum decades ago who warn others of Landmark but are still affected in their arrogance, (which they perceive as "confidence"), and self centredness.

I believe that if the "blocking" technique or technology as Landmark calls it, can be overcome, former Landmarkians can start to recover. Undoing the blocking will allow for their own reflection and resoning to return and also allow them to listen to others who want to help them recover.

It appears that the longer the blocking continues, the more the person is divorced from reality because they are blocking out the full picture. The uncorrected behaviour continues in a cycle to the point where the person can't face reality at all.

[b:48b29f02f0]My Questions are:[/b:48b29f02f0]
1. What else is known about this blocking technique?;

2. What is the antidote to stop a Landmarkian from "blocking" out the truth to open up the way to recovery, (so they can hear again)?

I invite Landmarkians to provide some insight into the first question.

Oz

Hi Oz,

I have long suspected the same thing. And sensed it happening. It is sort of like a recalcitrant child covering his ears and closing his eyes in an attempt to block out being scolded, for example. In cult members, various tricks are employed, such as silently singing a song or reciting a poem or chanting. They supposedly practice these techniques in close contact, nose-to-nose, so to speak. Even to the point of having the other person scream obscenities or the most demeaning or humiliating insults. They learn, this way, to dissociate themselves from whatever they choose. It must become a habit, which gave earlier cult members the "thousand yard stare;" a blank or "spaced-out" contenance. I imagine the current crop are up to the same sort of thing, as this little trick is too important to give up by those in control. As any criticism against the group, even the mildest sort, is still felt as personal or intimate, this tactic would be used so often it might become automatic. Probably why so many cult members have little emotion; they've learned to "escape" the unpleasant ones, not realizing they also escape the pleasant ones in the process. For some psychological reason, it is very difficult to blot out negative feeelings alone.

There are accounts of these practices being taught and used in the various books about scientology; "A Piece of Blue Sky" or "Messiah or Madman," for example.


Ellen

Hi Oz,

I've read about this blocking technique in a couple of books. Cult members absolutely refuse to hear anything negative about their group. I believe some even repeat positive phrases (or chants) about the group in their heads while being confronted with negative information; this reinforces the positive beliefs even more strongly in their minds, having the opposite effect of what's intended. My friend absolutely refuses to hear anything negative about LEC, dismissing me with an arrogant "you'll never get it."

I've also read that although cult members are trained to block out negative information about their own group, they may not be trained to block out such information about other groups...so sometimes you can "get past" this blocking technique by reporting true facts about groups similar to theirs, or groups in the past which are now defunct. They may protest that this has "nothing to do with my experience," but their minds may later put two and two together. After all, cultic groups have a lot in common.

Having said that, however, I don't believe even this approach always works. I've chatted online with several "'tweeners" who've been away from LEC for years or decades and still believe the LEC rhetoric; over time they've come to know enough to believe that other groups are cults (Scientology, for example), but still maintain that LEC is not. Or they may accept that LEC has "cultish aspects" but insist it's not a cult. Some may even accept it's a cult but define the word "cult" as something positive.

I think this is because, as LEC management learns more about the info available out there on the web and through other sources, they incorporate methods to "reinterpret" such information into their training. Their methods are becoming more and more sophisticated, preempting any attempts to educate people about the psychological effects of cult indoctrination.

[b:1323d3644e]Speculations[/b:1323d3644e]

Ive never been through an LGAT but from Concerned and Elena's descriptions I bet I learned blocking to cope with a stressful upbringing.

Many of us may learn blocking to survive the stress of abusive families. If someone comes from such a background and later is persuaded to do a high pressure program the indoctrination may perhaps stimulate, and then rigidify an already existing blocking reflex, anchoring crucial portions of LGAT conditioning to a pre-existing condition that sends the subjects inner life into constriction whenever some stressor comes to trigger it--the way predisposition to asthma can be greatly aggravated by exposure to later stress.

That may be why some persons are so profoundly affected by the indoctrination and have such trouble being freed from it. They may need treatment designed to first loosen up the HP group conditioning, and then, later, identify whether they suffered abuse earlier in life and unconsciously learned to cope by using blocking.

The childhood blocking program may continue to make people vulnerable unless they can access it and then, eventually remove the bug. This may affect both body and mind.

Its like adding 2 plus 2 and realizing at the unconscious level that you're afraid to see how the numbers add up to 4. So you block, and there may be several ways to impletment the block.

[b:1323d3644e]Possible blocking scenarios[/b:1323d3644e]

All of these can kick in unconsciously. I will provide a real-life example below. One doesnt 'choose' to do these--they can happen just as reflexively as yanking ones hand from a hot stove/

*You can avoid adding the numbers--block at the very beginning. THats where someone simply refuses to look at the evidence.

*Or you add a few numbers and then stop before you've entered all the numbers because you sense the answer will be scary. You abort data gathering before its complete.

*You get to the point of adding the numbers and never press the sum button. You've gathered the information but use blocking to avoid interpreting it.

**Or, you press the button and get the total, but convince yourself that the total is meaningless or isnt really what it is. You may ignore it or rationalize that no one can really ever know anything anyway. These days this position can be supported by going to see the film [i:1323d3644e]'What the Bleep do We Know?'[/i:1323d3644e]

Final hypothetical blocking scenario: Go into a rage and insist that the calculator is a hunk of shit and conduct a vendetta against the manufacturer.

A possible example of blocking is offered below:

I went to Thanksgiving with some old friends I had not seen in years, I was suprised to see how my woman friend was being disrespected by her children and bossed by her husband. It was shockingly out of character based on how she'd been raised.

The final day there was one incident that shocked me so badly that I blocked it. It happened right in front of me. I felt astounded, froze inside--and then, instantly I FORGOT IT. Its like a self induced micro-computer crash.

Cntrl+Alt+Del

It was not until 6 hours later when I was back in my home city, that I remembered the entire incident. Once again I felt shock, in my body as well as my head----and then realizing what the incident meant, I got mad at how my friend let herself be treated.

If I had experienced that same insight/anger at the time of the incident I would have been far from home, with my airport shuttle pick up date 4 hours away--awkward as hell.

It wouldve been so horrible to blow up and yell at these people that instead I did what I learned to do in childhood--I aborted the train of thought and emotion.

Must mention that until I woke up from that specific block, I felt upset but also off balance by my visit. I could remember many distressing things I witnessed while there, but my anger felt strange and incomplete, as though my emotions were there but [i:1323d3644e]without all the stuff needed to back them up[/i:1323d3644e]. Its like the balance sheet lacked crucial information and I felt like an accountant whose books are refusing to balance.

I knew that I was 'on to something' but that something was missing to complete the picture. My emotions were 'all there' but I lacked all the info needed to support the emotions. I felt off balance.

When I remembered the blocked incident, my anger 'made sense' and I no longer felt off balance. The numbers were all there, the math was right--and the books balanced. I felt it in my body as well as my head.

If someone has come out of a traumatic childhood learning to 'crash' 'block' or abort their awareness whenever a dangerous insight appears, they may be especially vulnerable to LGAT conditioning, just the way cloth takes dye much more thoroughly if a mordant chemical such as alum, salt or vinegar is added during the process. The mordant chemical 'fixes' the dye, which ensures that the cloth will retain its color even when washed many times. The presence of an unconscious early mastery of blocking may serve as a mordant.

**It would be very helpful if mental health professionals expert in trauma and dissociation could have a peer conferance and examine this in depth.

Many of us dont even know the extent to which we learn to block on a habitual basis, so would not know that LGATs may be especially problematic for us. A screening process unless conducted one one one, in depth by a mental health professional might not suffice to identify this set of risk factors.

What Elena said was right on--that its hard to just block negative emotions, that positive ones get blocked along with the negative ones. Ive had low level depression much of my life and its a consequence of blocking out stuff that distresses me.

Signficantly this form of depression never responded to medication but lifts whenever I do things that mobilize and unblock vitality--insight work and, signficantly, physical exercise. Perhaps exercise and other forms of body work may form an important component of recovery.

Again, these are my own hunches. See if they help you understand your own experience and if necessary check with a mental health professional

Quote

She recently commented to me on an altercation she had with someone where she said:

"My staring and smiling at her while she was talking to me seemed to make her more angry."

She went home that night and cried herself to sleep as the person accused her of being rude, (since LE, she really can be). She told me that she should have been stronger by: "blocking it out". She appears not to have a clue what is wrong with her.

I believe that NLPers would refer to the staring and smiling type of technique as "neutralising".

This could also be termed "inappropriate affect" in psychological terms.
In my case I displayed it as a symptom of trauma, I'd be flat and calm expressioned while speaking of past horrors.
This can be both a sign of trauma and also something that is taught as a technique.
Through the Forum and various cult involvements, I was trained and encouraged to manipulate my own emotions and responses.
Could be said that Landmark and other such groups are truly teaching and triggering people to be Narcissists.
And all of it encourages disassociation. Those of us who learned how to disassociate as a coping strategy during traumatic childhoods may be especially vulnerable.

Sarah

Humans have learned to manipulate and conceal emotion and have been doing this for centuries.

I read somewhere that many gem dealers learned to wear dark glasses during transactions because they learned that if people desired an object, their pupils dilated ever so slightly--and perhaps they emitted other visual cues. An alert adversary would know to keep the price high. So--it was better to conceal one's eyes during business transactions!

Players in high stakes card games didnt want to betray whether they had a good or a bad hand, and in such games one could win a victory with a weak hand by knowing how to stay cool and bluff. So schooling oneself to maintain a neutral expression that betrayed no emotion gave us the term poker face.

Prof. Paul Ekman, who researches facial expression at UC San Francisco Medical Center has learned that adopting facial expressions can actually change one's emotions. Some time back in New Yorker magazine, in an article entitled 'The Naked Face' Ekman told how he and one of his graduate students taught themselves the specific facial expressions for deep sadness. They did this for weeks and one day, both men admitted to each other that they were feeling utterly miserable. They realized they started feeling wretched as soon as they'd embarked on practicing sad facial expressions. Later experiments in double blind controlled conditions revealed that humans can indeed shift emotions by first adopting certain facial expressions.

This information jumped out at me because I'd read a memoir by Robert Twigger entitled Angry White Pyjamas, an account of a year that the author spent taking a tough course in Yoshinkin aikido in Japan.

Twigger noticed that one of his classmates, a very traditionally minded man, always maintained a slight, gently smiling expression even when brutalized by some sadistic instructors.

Sato told his classmate that when he smiled in this manner, he didnt block out pain or emotion, but that the experience didnt make him suffer. 'We call this the face of Kannon, the face of Buddha' he explained.

Its possible that coercive organizations that make you blank your face or make you smile, smile,smile all the time may indeed be teaching you to block or suppress emotions by messing with your body.

Even if one isnt aware of Professor Paul Ekman's work, this technique will be powerfully effective.

Yes,

ElRon referred to it as the "tone scale." Because he was a sociopath, he had no depth or understanding of emotions, instead learning to mimic or act by observing others. He learned that, in order to communication with non-sociopaths, one had to play the part. Especially if you wanted to sell them something. He "devised" his "tone scale" in order to manipulate his followers and teach them to manipulate others. Werner Erhard seems to have adopted this also, as I have heard old esties and Landmarkers say, "Be ten times more excited," (or something like that), knowing one is much more likely to be able to sell if they are optimistic and energetic.


Ellen

[www.gladwell.com]


Here's a link to the excellent article Corboy spoke of.

As I have been reading this post I have been thinking about how I used to (and sometimes still do) react when people have negitive comments.

From the word go it is drilled into you that Landmark is not psychology, religion. During the landmark forum you are coached either individually or as a group on how to counteract someones negative response or views on LE.

As you get further into the education it is drilled into you (literally) how to repsond to things. You learn off by heart certain answers to questions. If someone is saying no to you asking them to register you are taught that they are not really saying no that in fact they are expressing concern and it is your job to find the source of that concern and answer it.

You are taught that we dont Pressure someone we "enroll them in possiblity"

So yes you do learn to block responses. You learn to have a comeback for everything and after a time you believe these comebacks even though you have never investigated their validity yourself.

I never knew that LE is based up some parts of scientology. Yet it was drilled into me that its is not based on any religon.

If you are unsuccessfull at registering anyone you are coached on what is stopping you. that is your concerns are twisted until you think you have it wrong and that LE is right and then you go back out and start pushing it again.

I remember often thinking when I was defending LE that the person just had no idea and that they were really closed minded. (while they were talking so I wasn't really paying any attention to them).

One key to all this might be in how exhausting such maneuvers are.

It may appear that the person using such techniques is exhilarated or somehow in control, charged up, but in my experience, all this comes with a great cost.

When I was under that influence, I saw my exhaustion and confusion as mistakes and failures. Those experiences meant supposedly I was doing "it" wrong. I wasn't "getting it".

Eventually I was able to see that my exhaustion and confusion might very well mean that I was in exhausting circumstances, I was exhausting myself, I was in confusing circumstances. Instead of doing -more- of the mind f*ck techniques, immersing myself further, I needed lots of rest, exercise, humor, and compassion for myself. Along with critical thought skill building.

Even 15 + years away from Landmark, I still cannot deal with much Landmark language. All the destructive groups and relationships I've been in used variations on those techniques Landmark uses. Now, if I was to try to be that way again, it's as if I'd have to stand on my head, pretzel my mind around in contortions, and voluntarily electroshock myself. :) All while smiling and singing a happy song.

Editing oneself endlessly, blocking "negative" thoughts and experiences, using all those techniques...........is utterly exhausting.

Yet I continued until I deflated myself, relaxed, allowed myself to be human, stopped being so incredibly hard on myself, and explored whatever fears kept me in that destructive exhausting system.


Sarah