Montreal dont really know how to answer your question. When I think about it I go automatically to the distictions of Landmark Education, which I really dont like doing.

In terms of the past. Yes Landmark pushes you to put the past in the past, and as part of this recognising what parts of your current life are just follow on from the past. There are so many "distinctions" that make up this, but effectively this process leads some people to believe that the relationships they are currently in are links of the past.

In terms of flash backs I can't answer. I think a lot of the Forum and the advanced course if designed to speculate on memories, and when you are in a large group everyones memories and sharing can impact others memories. I would guess some people do have flash backs.

Sorry guess that answer doesn't help much.

Oz. The landmark forum and advanced course both have so many times where people are challenged about their relationships. The story (in the advanced course) is for some a very emotional thing. You are told to write about one negative things/time/ person in your life. You are told to write everything down. So for some they write about their partners. you then write all the bad stuff you feel (remembering of course that people are being manipulated to feel lots of negative stuff here so small often completely irrelevant stuff suddenly takes on greater proportions).

later as people share they will be coached, challenged about these relationships. Some people feel that they would be better with out these relationships but they make these decisions while they are in an emotional state with full comprehension even though they believe they are fully capable of making an informed choice.

While I was on staff I, like every other staff member reviewed the Landmark forum and advanced course. I flew to a another centre and did it there and remember being challenged by the landmark forum leader to either register my boyfriend of the time or dump him. i was told to choose. I knew my boyfriend would never do the landmark forum He had told me in no uncertain terms not to ever ask him again. when i went into this with the landmark forum leader during a break I was told well then you need to choose staff or him. then being asked if he trusted me what kind of relationship was I in if he wouldn't even trust me

I chose landmark. I was sitting in an offfice with a landmark forum leader who quite frankly scared me. being yelled at to choose. then being coached again about how chosing is not deciding just choose. him or landmark. Now looking back I can see how it all happend I can see objectively how the situation was set up how I was set up. but then in the middle of it all I was just doing what I was taught to do.

Hello Sonnie Dee,

I'm sorry, don't want to be triggering anything on your end,,, just simply want to understand certain things, and I really do thank you for your replies and the efforts you are making in helping us see things just a little bit clearer.

As Oz mentioned many of us have lost loved ones and have been quite confused on the "whys" of this and that.

Personally, I lost complete contact a little over a month ago, one month after he did the "Forum", we went from regular daily good conversations, about to meet for lunch to complete silence out of the blue, with no explanation. Although I have tried several times to regain contact, no ado!!! My emails were deleted and I received no reply. Obviously all this leads to many unanswered questions and that need to fully understand.

With all I have learnt, I am very worried and frustrated, that I wasn't able to use the knowledge I have to get through to him and make him see what actually is going on in his life. I wondered many times over, when he sees my emails, what goes through his head.

I asked about "Flashbacks & Memories", for everyone that has been in a relationship, and were real close to that person, have vivid memories of many events that the two shared together, and was wondering if after participating at Landmark, if these memories are still existant, temporarily blocked out or wiped out completly.

Hi Montreal,

In regards to the flashbacks or memories. The landmark forum has different effects on everyone but I dont believe people lose their memories of events as such or that they are blocked out. What I do believe happens is that some perceptions of memories are altered by the way a participant is told to relook at them.

I can imagine how hard it is if you have lost people you love to Landmark or any LGAt. You haven't triggered me any way with your questions Its more that at the moment they are hard for me to answer without resorting to a language that I am trying to eradicate or change from my vocabulary.

In terms of the person who is not repsonding to your emails, during participation your way of percieving peoples repsonses is altered. If you do not succeed in registering someone you are coached (often in front of lots of others) about your relationship. challenged about whether the other person really cares about you (because if they cared they would do the programme). You begin to think that the person you are trying to register really doesn't care about you. Once you reach that point, it is easy to leave a relationship. ignore a person. Emotionally you have already cut yourself away from that person.

I hope that makes sense

Hi Sonnie Dee,

You are making perfect sense in your explanations and what you write is most helpful.

Thanks for the understanding of the "My life story" exercise. I did not realise it was one aspect of your life but all of it.

My ex has told me nothing much at all as to what she went through. She left LE 12 months ago now. The programming is preventing her from recovering. She thinks that reflecting on things that happened and inquiring into her thought processes is "analysing" which I understand has a negative value imposed on it from FIA - the whoe distinction between deciding and choosing etc. Deciding requires reasoning and logic while choosing is an active participation in materialising goals. (I am trying to avoid the LE words).

As I started that thread on "blocking", I am trying to work out a way to the door of her head so she lets more information or expereince in than if it just feels positive.

I think she blocks out anything interlectual because it has the negative value of "analysing" and she also blocks out anything she perceives has a negative emotion to it.

Her position is different to yours in that she left LE prematurely as I created such an uproar for her she had to leave, whereas you seem to have left on your terms with your own understanding that things were not right with LE.

She understands now that LE was evil but unknowingly still uses and speaks the "tech". - any ideas?

Oz

Hi Oz,

Yes I did leave landmark on my own understanding which probably makes a significant difference. However when I left initially it was because I was so sick. I did not make connections to quite a while afterwards and only when talking about things with a counsellor.

I can look back now and see how everything linked and the impact and affects but back then I couldn't even though I was extreemly sick I would defend landmark. I would talk the talk because it was what I knew.

One thing I did notice is that those people who got coaching in front of everyone took on the coaching in a more indepth manner. I found that when I was coached like that, I was deeply embarrased and focused on the words, made them most important. It helped control the feeling of humiliation/embarrasment/fear and what ever else.

[www.tonyrobbins.com]

Another discussion about Landmark has started on the Robbins website. Of course, the Landmarkians have started to come out of the woodwork near the end of the thread.

Hi Coz - thanks for the link.

When I was in my "Money and You" Robert Kiyosaki LGAT years ago, we thought we were fine too and Esties were poor victims of a horrible process. We did not realise our process was something quite similar.

I feel that this is the case for the AR devotees. I noticed one of the posters from that thread talks about the firewalk in comparison to the LE process. Now, I have firewalked and I have also been through an LGAT and I can tell everyone here that the euphoric affects are the same, not similar, but the same.

However, reading through the AR thread, and some of the posters have over 1500 posts to their credit, their writing patterns appear to be normal as opposed to a fully inslaved and indoctrinated Landmark participant. It is as though you could possibly have a normal discussion with them.

Hi Sonnie_dee - My ex g/f claims that she never spoke out about issues so she never got "one on one coaching" yet to this day, she seems so indoctrinated at an unconscious level yet at a conscious level rejects all LE stands for. It is certainly a mistery.

Oz

Hello Sonnie Dee,

I don't know if he only took the "Forum" or followed it up with more courses, but I would presume he is getting more than his share's worth of coaching, on a daily basis, from his present g/f, which obviously would explain many things. Whatever the case, took her 1 week to create the possibility of a relationship with him and 3 months to live in the possibility of marriage & children in the coming year,,,, which in reality having children, was the furthest thing from his mind to do right now.

His g/f has the following courses under her belt, in a one year time span, and is also taking NLP courses. Forum, Forum in Action, Advanced Course, SELP, CAP, CPP & Money.

Oz,

I also noticed that I can understand what an AR member is saying, compared to not understanding at all or making any sense of what a Landmarkian is saying.

Montreal I think the reason that a Landmarkian is often so much harder to comprehend is the fact that Landmark takes a word and changes the meaning it then spends all day and night getting your brain to accept this new meaning so that when you think of that word that is what you think of.

Take for example the term "being unreasonable" what this means in every day life opposed to the Landmark term is completely different. This term in landmark is used to have to do something where you have to move heaven and earth to do it. If you are asked to do something by a landmark person you are often asked I have an unreasonable request. I still shudder when I hear that term because what it really means is i want you to do something and you are not going to say no.

OZ even though your G/F was not coached at the front of the room, i can almost guarentee that she received coaching from other participants and possibly from an assistant or even someone who was reviewing the Landmark forum. Of course even just sitting in the landmark forum for three days with little sleep and a continual pushing of your thoughts can lead to this unconcious change in thought patterns.

Sometimes even if you want to change the patterns you can't. I know I find it incredibly hard with those things I recognise. I know there is a lot of stuff I still dont pick up on.

Robbins has captured the minds of his folks, but just in a different way.
Some of them question Landmark, whereas some others are very pro-Landmark.
I had a HUGE showdown with one Robbins-Landmark guy in that thread, a LONG time ago. The Robbins folks are usually pretty credulous, and will believe most anything they are sold, it seems. There was some RARE skepticism in that thread.
But its the basic 'seminar junkie" mentality, i think due to a lack of basic intrinsic self-worth.
If you REALLY question some of those folks, their true colours emerge.
Keep watching that thread, and you will see some of the Landmarkian craziness emerge. There are some new posts already.

Coz

Quote
Concerned Oz
Hi Coz - thanks for the link.


However, reading through the AR thread, and some of the posters have over 1500 posts to their credit, their writing patterns appear to be normal as opposed to a fully inslaved and indoctrinated Landmark participant. It is as though you could possibly have a normal discussion with them.


Oz