Landmark Education - Questions
Posted by:
Concerned Oz
()
Date: October 18, 2004 02:45PM
1- A free Seminar series called "Forum In Action"
-What happens in the "Forum in Action" courses??
-What do the participants have to do?
-Do you have to take the "Forum in Action" courses in order to take the
Advanced courses??
Oz – “Forum In Action” as the name states is a 4 hour session x10 that takes various principles or “technologies” learnt in the Forum and expands them out by showing and encouraging participants to practice them in their daily lives. Homework is emphasized whereby participants must complete a task around a “technology” or a “distinction” and report back the following week. The idea behind it is to encourage the participants to change their behaviours in their lives according to Landmark technology.[/color:9458d68e4c]
If you go to the Lanmdark website you will see that there is a pre-requisite for courses. It is only necessary to do the Forum first in order to do the Advanced Course, yet, (and this is where the contradiction is), the In Action Seminar series is designed to consolidate the Forum learnings. It comes down to company cash flow and “bums on seats”.[/color:9458d68e4c]
2-It has been known for a collection to be taken up so a person can enroll.
-The collection taken, starts by whom? People that work for Landmark,
pretending to be participants? Just in order to force the newly
participants to empty their pockets and through the good deed these
people are doing, make themselves look like such a wonderful place?
Oz – it has been known for people to turn to prostitution in order to raise the money for the Advanced Course. Though this is extreme, there is weekly pressure on participants in the Forum In Action to “enroll” in the Advanced Course. That is why the seminar series is free, to get people to pay up over $1,000 for the Advanced Course. This is the main money making course for the company. Collections are taken for people in the In Action Seminar for people who don’t have the money.[/color:9458d68e4c]
3-After the Advanced Course, the graduate makes the "distinction" from "creating possibilities" to "being possibility"
-So when someone says "I am creating my possibility, whatever it may be" means that they have indeed taken an "Advanced" course.
Oz – No. There is a philosophical difference between a person ”creating a possibility” and “being possibility”. In the Forum, participants learn about creating anything they want in their life – “creating possibility”. “Being possibility” in the Advanced Course is a shift in paradigms. In the former, the “possibility” is outside of self whereas the later has become self.
Eg: Forum – I will create the possibility of a new career.
Advanced Course: I am the possibility of a new career. Extending this philosophical concept to the ultimate LE goal as stated by Werner – “I am”. This has Judeo-Christian theological elements to it as – “And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM” Exodus 3:14
Without going deeper into the LE philosophy, participants are at varying stages of “transformation” as they adopt god like concepts – I am possibility, I can create anything in my life. Freud would say that the LE process regresses a person back to their child like state of being the centre of their own universe, that part of the psyche he referred to as the “ID” – “I want, I need” while having no regard for the needs or wishes of others.[/color:9458d68e4c]
4-The Forum is designed for "transformation" of the participant. Following courses are designed for further "distinctions" to be made - more "getting it"-
-When they refer to "Getting It" Get what???? What are they getting? (Getting f***ed without knowing it) ???
-What do they mean by "Transformation" is it when people that really
know you, see a change in you and ask you "What happened to you"?
- Is it when they don't seem to have any more time for you, cause they
are just too busy (yet don't really tell you busy about what)?
Oz - A worm transforms into a butterfly. An LE participant transforms from a former state of “being” into another state of “being”. In other “new age” circles, this can be referred to a “paradigm shift”. In psychology it can be referred to looking at things through different lenses.
The LE transformation exists in the participant to varying degrees on an emotional and intellectual level. On an emotional level, it is believed that the LE process causes an increased production of serotonin, (similar to a heroin hit), which can induce the symptoms of Mania as defined in the DSMiv-TR. In this state, a person can become very suggestible and participants take on board as “gospel” the philosophy of LE – unquestioned. So, the participant feels wonderful and connected to everyone and knowing that he/she can create anything in their life. – This is “transformation” and this is also referred to as “getting it”[/color:9458d68e4c]
5-There are 60 courses ranging from one night seminars to leadership programmes spaning years-Leadership? What do these leaders do?
-Is leadership something they emphasize on, so people move towards that as their goal?
Oz – Leadership training equips a person to run an Introductory Night, Forum or other courses. Like with any other organization, some people naturally rise through the ranks and these are the ones that are encouraged to do these courses.[/color:9458d68e4c]
7-Once in the SELP course, participants meet outside to develop community projects.
-Community projects? Such as?
Oz – Typical projects like planting trees for a local school – harmless stuff.[/color:9458d68e4c]
8- If a person is active in Landmark, their friends fall into two catagories: Landmarkians; and potential Landmarkians. If a friend or family member objects to a Landmarkian's behaviour or LE participation, they are shunned and they are trained to do this at a conscious and unconscious level, ("everyone is out to get me"
-In other words, no contact allowed with the outside world if they are not
Landmarkians or future Landmarkians?
Oz – Landmark is not run as a regime – you must do etc. The thought reform is so integrated within the participant that they think like LE wants them to think.[/color:9458d68e4c]
11-If the Landmarkian has done the Advanced Course, they are trained in hypnotic suggestion and trance induction so theoretically - yes, but its no where near as powerful as doing the courses yourself.
-They are trained this in their "Advanced" courses to do to others???
Oz – In the Advanced Course, participants spend considerable time staring into the eyes of each other while standing toe to toe. This process is called “being with” or being in the moment with another or being present. However, this hypnotic process can become involuntary given an occasion. My ex g/f has gone into trance 3 times with me and at least once with another person I know and that is 10 months since she left LE. I noticed one time, (and she was unaware she was doing it), my mind went blank for a few seconds. It is a form of hypnosis.[/color:9458d68e4c]
Outline of Brainwashing Methodology
[www.livejournal.com]
14- There "authenticity" and "integrity" is centred around themself and LE only. Other people are a "resource in their life" - that's all. You are either a "user" or a "usee". This is taught in either the 4th or 5th "Forum In Action" evening.
-So whatever they say to a non-Landmarkian is total BS when it comes to true feelings?
-They are using you, to get you to Landmark?
Oz – what you are saying is absolute in content. I would rather say that what you have said is generally true.[/color:9458d68e4c]
18- Rick Ross has some examples on his main site as to what happens when landmark enters a company.
Found this on a french site, scroll down to- Landmark Education International
[www.infosectes.com]
-Who is Club Toast Masters and what are they to Landmark?
-They are being referred in this text as the middleman that served to introduce Landmark to IBM.
- Didn't see "Club Toast Masters" mentioned in any of the Landmark
articles I've read up to now, who are they?
Oz – I think this is Toast Masters – a reputable organization set up to help business people with public speaking skills.
Montreal - can you give a brief account of what is stated in French regarding Toast masters and Landmark? - Thanks[/color:9458d68e4c]
20- How dangerous is it to get involved in a relationship with a
Landmarkian that is claiming to create possibilities and has been
transformed?
Oz - What do you think?[/b][/b]
- I think I came to the right place to find that out....How do we relate the message though???
Oz – Generally, a Landmarkian is turned off by negative comments about Landmark. Landmark has become part of their psyche so to criticize LE is to criticize the person. Most people leave a cult or high demand group through exhaustion, not intellectual rigor.[/color:9458d68e4c]
Oz
-What happens in the "Forum in Action" courses??
-What do the participants have to do?
-Do you have to take the "Forum in Action" courses in order to take the
Advanced courses??
Oz – “Forum In Action” as the name states is a 4 hour session x10 that takes various principles or “technologies” learnt in the Forum and expands them out by showing and encouraging participants to practice them in their daily lives. Homework is emphasized whereby participants must complete a task around a “technology” or a “distinction” and report back the following week. The idea behind it is to encourage the participants to change their behaviours in their lives according to Landmark technology.[/color:9458d68e4c]
If you go to the Lanmdark website you will see that there is a pre-requisite for courses. It is only necessary to do the Forum first in order to do the Advanced Course, yet, (and this is where the contradiction is), the In Action Seminar series is designed to consolidate the Forum learnings. It comes down to company cash flow and “bums on seats”.[/color:9458d68e4c]
2-It has been known for a collection to be taken up so a person can enroll.
-The collection taken, starts by whom? People that work for Landmark,
pretending to be participants? Just in order to force the newly
participants to empty their pockets and through the good deed these
people are doing, make themselves look like such a wonderful place?
Oz – it has been known for people to turn to prostitution in order to raise the money for the Advanced Course. Though this is extreme, there is weekly pressure on participants in the Forum In Action to “enroll” in the Advanced Course. That is why the seminar series is free, to get people to pay up over $1,000 for the Advanced Course. This is the main money making course for the company. Collections are taken for people in the In Action Seminar for people who don’t have the money.[/color:9458d68e4c]
3-After the Advanced Course, the graduate makes the "distinction" from "creating possibilities" to "being possibility"
-So when someone says "I am creating my possibility, whatever it may be" means that they have indeed taken an "Advanced" course.
Oz – No. There is a philosophical difference between a person ”creating a possibility” and “being possibility”. In the Forum, participants learn about creating anything they want in their life – “creating possibility”. “Being possibility” in the Advanced Course is a shift in paradigms. In the former, the “possibility” is outside of self whereas the later has become self.
Eg: Forum – I will create the possibility of a new career.
Advanced Course: I am the possibility of a new career. Extending this philosophical concept to the ultimate LE goal as stated by Werner – “I am”. This has Judeo-Christian theological elements to it as – “And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM” Exodus 3:14
Without going deeper into the LE philosophy, participants are at varying stages of “transformation” as they adopt god like concepts – I am possibility, I can create anything in my life. Freud would say that the LE process regresses a person back to their child like state of being the centre of their own universe, that part of the psyche he referred to as the “ID” – “I want, I need” while having no regard for the needs or wishes of others.[/color:9458d68e4c]
4-The Forum is designed for "transformation" of the participant. Following courses are designed for further "distinctions" to be made - more "getting it"-
-When they refer to "Getting It" Get what???? What are they getting? (Getting f***ed without knowing it) ???
-What do they mean by "Transformation" is it when people that really
know you, see a change in you and ask you "What happened to you"?
- Is it when they don't seem to have any more time for you, cause they
are just too busy (yet don't really tell you busy about what)?
Oz - A worm transforms into a butterfly. An LE participant transforms from a former state of “being” into another state of “being”. In other “new age” circles, this can be referred to a “paradigm shift”. In psychology it can be referred to looking at things through different lenses.
The LE transformation exists in the participant to varying degrees on an emotional and intellectual level. On an emotional level, it is believed that the LE process causes an increased production of serotonin, (similar to a heroin hit), which can induce the symptoms of Mania as defined in the DSMiv-TR. In this state, a person can become very suggestible and participants take on board as “gospel” the philosophy of LE – unquestioned. So, the participant feels wonderful and connected to everyone and knowing that he/she can create anything in their life. – This is “transformation” and this is also referred to as “getting it”[/color:9458d68e4c]
5-There are 60 courses ranging from one night seminars to leadership programmes spaning years-Leadership? What do these leaders do?
-Is leadership something they emphasize on, so people move towards that as their goal?
Oz – Leadership training equips a person to run an Introductory Night, Forum or other courses. Like with any other organization, some people naturally rise through the ranks and these are the ones that are encouraged to do these courses.[/color:9458d68e4c]
7-Once in the SELP course, participants meet outside to develop community projects.
-Community projects? Such as?
Oz – Typical projects like planting trees for a local school – harmless stuff.[/color:9458d68e4c]
8- If a person is active in Landmark, their friends fall into two catagories: Landmarkians; and potential Landmarkians. If a friend or family member objects to a Landmarkian's behaviour or LE participation, they are shunned and they are trained to do this at a conscious and unconscious level, ("everyone is out to get me"
-In other words, no contact allowed with the outside world if they are not
Landmarkians or future Landmarkians?
Oz – Landmark is not run as a regime – you must do etc. The thought reform is so integrated within the participant that they think like LE wants them to think.[/color:9458d68e4c]
11-If the Landmarkian has done the Advanced Course, they are trained in hypnotic suggestion and trance induction so theoretically - yes, but its no where near as powerful as doing the courses yourself.
-They are trained this in their "Advanced" courses to do to others???
Oz – In the Advanced Course, participants spend considerable time staring into the eyes of each other while standing toe to toe. This process is called “being with” or being in the moment with another or being present. However, this hypnotic process can become involuntary given an occasion. My ex g/f has gone into trance 3 times with me and at least once with another person I know and that is 10 months since she left LE. I noticed one time, (and she was unaware she was doing it), my mind went blank for a few seconds. It is a form of hypnosis.[/color:9458d68e4c]
Outline of Brainwashing Methodology
[www.livejournal.com]
14- There "authenticity" and "integrity" is centred around themself and LE only. Other people are a "resource in their life" - that's all. You are either a "user" or a "usee". This is taught in either the 4th or 5th "Forum In Action" evening.
-So whatever they say to a non-Landmarkian is total BS when it comes to true feelings?
-They are using you, to get you to Landmark?
Oz – what you are saying is absolute in content. I would rather say that what you have said is generally true.[/color:9458d68e4c]
18- Rick Ross has some examples on his main site as to what happens when landmark enters a company.
Found this on a french site, scroll down to- Landmark Education International
[www.infosectes.com]
-Who is Club Toast Masters and what are they to Landmark?
-They are being referred in this text as the middleman that served to introduce Landmark to IBM.
- Didn't see "Club Toast Masters" mentioned in any of the Landmark
articles I've read up to now, who are they?
Oz – I think this is Toast Masters – a reputable organization set up to help business people with public speaking skills.
Montreal - can you give a brief account of what is stated in French regarding Toast masters and Landmark? - Thanks[/color:9458d68e4c]
20- How dangerous is it to get involved in a relationship with a
Landmarkian that is claiming to create possibilities and has been
transformed?
Oz - What do you think?[/b][/b]
- I think I came to the right place to find that out....How do we relate the message though???
Oz – Generally, a Landmarkian is turned off by negative comments about Landmark. Landmark has become part of their psyche so to criticize LE is to criticize the person. Most people leave a cult or high demand group through exhaustion, not intellectual rigor.[/color:9458d68e4c]
Oz
Landmark Education - Questions
Posted by:
glam
()
Date: October 19, 2004 06:25AM
Quote
-Who is Club Toast Masters and what are they to Landmark?
-They are being referred in this text as the middleman that served to introduce Landmark to IBM.
- Didn't see "Club Toast Masters" mentioned in any of the Landmark
articles I've read up to now, who are they?
Oz – I think this is Toast Masters – a reputable organization set up to help business people with public speaking skills.
I've heard from an ex-Landmarkian that Landmark runs an organization that places executives in corporations -- an executive search outfit. Supposedly this is a well-regarded organization, and I doubt people realize it's run by Landmark. A terrific way to assure that Landmark grads are put into positions of power in companies, where they can recruit those under them. I have no idea what this organization is called, though, or whether it's connected to/is ToastMasters.
Landmark Education - Questions
Posted by:
Montreal
()
Date: October 20, 2004 12:42AM
[b:1b02dee714]Montreal - can you give a brief account of what is stated in French regarding Toast masters and Landmark? - Thanks [/b:1b02dee714]
Hello Oz,
I will be posting the translation of the french article soon. Canadian french & France french use different terms, so I am just checking on a few things, before posting the complete translation.
Hello Oz,
I will be posting the translation of the french article soon. Canadian french & France french use different terms, so I am just checking on a few things, before posting the complete translation.
Landmark Education - Questions
Posted by:
Montreal
()
Date: November 04, 2004 11:51PM
Quote
Montreal
[b:1d0b1f26fa]Montreal - can you give a brief account of what is stated in French regarding Toast masters and Landmark? - Thanks [/b:1d0b1f26fa]
Hello Oz,
I will be posting the translation of the french article soon. Canadian french & France french use different terms, so I am just checking on a few things, before posting the complete translation.
Hello Oz,
[b:1d0b1f26fa]Orignal french version: [/b:1d0b1f26fa] [www.infosectes.com]
[b:1d0b1f26fa]Translation supplied by[/b:1d0b1f26fa]: [trans.voila.fr]
[trans.voila.fr]
My understanding and translation:
Landmark had as main customer the corporation IBM France, within which, starting in 1992, they organized several training sessions, that caused lots of controversy within the company, and would be at the origin of an employees suicide. . The sect was introduced, by an intermediary, “The Forum of the Banks of the Seine, "Club Toast Masters". Created and financed by IBM’s committee council, This club addressed itself to executives outside of working hours, lead by an engineer, who had recruited members in favor of Landmark, through door to door selling. Methods used by the sect aroused a reaction from IBM's administration whom then alerted about the dangers of the techniques used, and put in evidence the risks of proselytism.
Mr. Roth imposed himself to IBM in two ways. He first intervened through a seminar entitled “ Leadership Success” in 1991, lead in part internally, but in which they would call for exterior contributors. From mid 1991 to early 1993, IBM financed 75% to 100% of the platform cost, and exempted “The Forum” to 16 employees, through their program “Participation to Education Studies”, that was presented by their staff for personal training seminars. Alerted by several trainees, the administration decided to put an end to all this March 30, 1993. This decision provoked violent protests by several employees. Management remains convinced that “The Forum” continued to be exempted within IBM after March 30th, by the channel of personal initiatives. It seems the "bank" branch group was the most affected.
To face this attempt of infiltration, IBM’s General Director, decided to divert the decision, and regarded it as vocational training and internalized the services carried out in this field.
[b:1d0b1f26fa]*Proselytism: [/b:1d0b1f26fa]- the act or practice of proselytizing: the making of converts to a religion or a religious sect, or to any opinion, system, or party.
- the practice of proselytizing: the state of being a proselyte; spiritual rebirth resulting from the zeal of crusading advocacy of the gospel
A person who has undergone conversion is called a convert or proselyte. A proselyte (from the Latin word proselytus which in turn comes from the Greek word proselytos meaning "someone who has found his/her place", is in general a title given to a person who has switched totally to embrace a certain relegion, ideology, metaphysics, ontology, et cetera. It is used especially to signify people who try to convert others to his/her cause in an obtrusive and irritating manner.
Landmark Education - Questions
Posted by:
Concerned Oz
()
Date: November 05, 2004 09:03AM
Montreal, - thanks for providing the translation.
I am interested to know more about the alleged suicide and the alleged murder possibly caused through involvement in Landmark Education France.
For further info on other alleged Landmark related Murders, please refer to this thread:
[board.culteducation.com]
I have included below for cross reference purposes a thread on Landmark Education France which reports on the fact that Landmark Education France has been catagorised by the French Government as a cult:
[board.culteducation.com]
Oz
I am interested to know more about the alleged suicide and the alleged murder possibly caused through involvement in Landmark Education France.
For further info on other alleged Landmark related Murders, please refer to this thread:
[board.culteducation.com]
I have included below for cross reference purposes a thread on Landmark Education France which reports on the fact that Landmark Education France has been catagorised by the French Government as a cult:
[board.culteducation.com]
Oz
Landmark Education - Questions
Posted by:
Montreal
()
Date: November 05, 2004 11:38AM
Quote
Concerned Oz
Montreal, - thanks for providing the translation.
I am interested to know more about the alleged suicide and the alleged murder possibly caused through involvement in Landmark Education France.
I have included below for cross reference purposes a thread on Landmark Education France which reports on the fact that Lanmdark Education France has been catagorised by the French Government as a cult:
[board.culteducation.com]
Oz
Hello Oz,
Couldn't find anything on the net about this alleged suicide,,, I didn't find anything in English about the connection of IBM & Landmark either.
I did go on the Toast Masters site, and they have a list of coorperate members, IBM is listed,,
[www.toastmasters.org]
Landmark Education - Questions
Posted by:
Montreal
()
Date: November 06, 2004 01:40PM
IBM - Landmark Education
[www.vandepavert.com]
[www.colibritechnologies.com]
[www.credere.com]
[www.instituto-pnl.com]
[www.comp.ufscar.br]
[www.adamwillson.com]
[www.theholidayproject.org]
Dutch Site - IBM,,, Rick Ross on it with Landmark Education, ????
[www.de-leau.com]
[www.worldtalkradio.com]
[kcbrandon.blogspot.com]
[www.itic.org]
[www.business.wm.edu]
[www.donovangroup.net]
[www.rmsbconsult.com]
[www.valeoconsulting.com]
[www.alliesconsulting.com]
[www.itpeopleindia.com]
[www.robert-long.nl]
[www.hackerz.org]
[w1.888.telia.com]
[www.scguild.com]
[www.selkerlead.net]
[www.vandepavert.com]
[www.colibritechnologies.com]
[www.credere.com]
[www.instituto-pnl.com]
[www.comp.ufscar.br]
[www.adamwillson.com]
[www.theholidayproject.org]
Dutch Site - IBM,,, Rick Ross on it with Landmark Education, ????
[www.de-leau.com]
[www.worldtalkradio.com]
[kcbrandon.blogspot.com]
[www.itic.org]
[www.business.wm.edu]
[www.donovangroup.net]
[www.rmsbconsult.com]
[www.valeoconsulting.com]
[www.alliesconsulting.com]
[www.itpeopleindia.com]
[www.robert-long.nl]
[www.hackerz.org]
[w1.888.telia.com]
[www.scguild.com]
[www.selkerlead.net]
Landmark Education - Questions
Posted by:
Montreal
()
Date: November 07, 2004 04:17AM
Landmark Education - Toastmasters
PMI-NEFL Dinner Meeting Details
... Benson will discuss how Toastmasters Club can help the audience develop both ... through the educational programs of Landmark Education Corporation. Courses in leadership, communication ...
[pmi-nefl.org]
[www.globaltickit.com]
[www.northnassau.com]
[www.elizabethclaire.com]
[www.bagels.co.nz]
[home.nyc.rr.com]
[www.geocities.com]
[www.coachuniverse.com]
[www.wakeupyourlife.com]
[www.cs.unm.edu]
[us.wifi.beyondbricks.ecademy.com]
[www.painterinfo.com]
[www.forestlakeconsulting.com]
[www.tulenko.com]
[www.iccweb.com]
[www.munich-toastmasters.de]
[www.johnkoze.com]
[www.jimkofalt.com]
[www.claricomm.com]
[www.whoareyoubeing.com]
[www.brianharp.net]
[www.energymassage.biz]
[www.walkwithwomen.com]
[worldunlimited.org]
PMI-NEFL Dinner Meeting Details
... Benson will discuss how Toastmasters Club can help the audience develop both ... through the educational programs of Landmark Education Corporation. Courses in leadership, communication ...
[pmi-nefl.org]
[www.globaltickit.com]
[www.northnassau.com]
[www.elizabethclaire.com]
[www.bagels.co.nz]
[home.nyc.rr.com]
[www.geocities.com]
[www.coachuniverse.com]
[www.wakeupyourlife.com]
[www.cs.unm.edu]
[us.wifi.beyondbricks.ecademy.com]
[www.painterinfo.com]
[www.forestlakeconsulting.com]
[www.tulenko.com]
[www.iccweb.com]
[www.munich-toastmasters.de]
[www.johnkoze.com]
[www.jimkofalt.com]
[www.claricomm.com]
[www.whoareyoubeing.com]
[www.brianharp.net]
[www.energymassage.biz]
[www.walkwithwomen.com]
[worldunlimited.org]
Landmark Education - Questions
Posted by:
Montreal
()
Date: November 16, 2004 12:21PM
What does it take for a country to pass a law and declare an organization a destructive cult?
Landmark Education - Questions
Posted by:
Concerned Oz
()
Date: November 16, 2004 04:32PM
Montreal,
You have certainly done some investigations into Landmark Graduates here.
One aspect appears that LE Grads refer to their "education" with LE on a similar level to their accademic and industry based credentials.
Also of note is the degree of depth of information these people provide of themselves - very singularly focused on self.
It is interesting that from your sample that Landmarkians are also Toastmasters. This is actually a "natural" situation. Landmark confronts people with their fears. Most people have a fear of public speaking and Landmarkians are usually in ore of their Forum leader, wishing they too could addresss an audience with such confidence.
Toastmasters is a legitimate organisation that helps people with the fear of public speaking - there is the link. I would say that Toastmasters is the innocent party. There just seems to be allot of Landmarkians there probably using its services as a way of recruitment.
One of your links pointed to a discussion thread set up by a senior Landmarkian as a forum to discuss LE principles in business. It was really sad - all they talked about was how they were recruiting people into LE Intro Nights. There was nothing else of substance though it provides good examples of the Landmarkain language with limited vocabulary.
Montreal's links provide insight into how Landmarkians view themselves in their created world of illusion.
Oz
You have certainly done some investigations into Landmark Graduates here.
One aspect appears that LE Grads refer to their "education" with LE on a similar level to their accademic and industry based credentials.
Also of note is the degree of depth of information these people provide of themselves - very singularly focused on self.
It is interesting that from your sample that Landmarkians are also Toastmasters. This is actually a "natural" situation. Landmark confronts people with their fears. Most people have a fear of public speaking and Landmarkians are usually in ore of their Forum leader, wishing they too could addresss an audience with such confidence.
Toastmasters is a legitimate organisation that helps people with the fear of public speaking - there is the link. I would say that Toastmasters is the innocent party. There just seems to be allot of Landmarkians there probably using its services as a way of recruitment.
One of your links pointed to a discussion thread set up by a senior Landmarkian as a forum to discuss LE principles in business. It was really sad - all they talked about was how they were recruiting people into LE Intro Nights. There was nothing else of substance though it provides good examples of the Landmarkain language with limited vocabulary.
Montreal's links provide insight into how Landmarkians view themselves in their created world of illusion.
Oz
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