(this is a continuation of this thread, with a more descriptive title)
[forum.culteducation.com]


Notice how they are saying "integrity" is
Quote:
"independent of normative value judgments. Integrity is thus not about good or bad, or right or wrong, or even about what should be or what should not be."

(notice how they have now moved Werner Erhards name ABOVE the author of the paper?)

Integrity: A Positive Model that Incorporates the Normative Phenomena of Morality, Ethics, and Legality
WERNER ERHARD
Independent
[papers.ssrn.com]

Suggested Citation
Erhard, Werner, Jensen, Michael C. and Zaffron, Steve, "Integrity: A Positive Model that Incorporates the Normative Phenomena of Morality, Ethics, and Legality (Pdf File of Keynote Slides)" (May 10, 2008). Barbados Group Working Paper No. 06-07 Available at SSRN: [ssrn.com]

Hard to believe the chutzpah, the arrogance, the sheer outright gall of these clowns thinking their idiot "theories" deserve to be written and printed in some legitimizing format. I'm amazed they weren't laughed off the stage.



"Oversimplifying somewhat, "honoring your word", as we define it, means you either keep your word, or as soon as you know that you will not, you say that you will not be keeping your word to those who were counting on your word and clean up any mess you caused by not keeping your word. By "keeping your word" we mean doing what you said you would do and by the time you said you would do it."



Ellen

I note that Werner has an email address posted there: werhard@ssrn.com

You can't put lipstick on a pig! Well, you can, but it's still a pig.

Here is some info I found on Wiki:

[en.wikipedia.org]

I am amazed at the fervent hatred you people show to Werner Erhard. What did he ever do to you to deserve such venom?

My personal experience of attending a course where I personally was in a room with Werner leading a three day version of the Landmark Education Form to train their trainers in the short three day version compared with the four day format.

It was the most remarkable conversation I've ever been a party to in my life.

I was continually amazed by Werner's humanity with the people that he was coaching in real issues in their lives.

As an observer I was able to see what went on while the participants in the Forum were out of the room for breaks. These conversations among Werner and the fifty or so Forum Leaders were even more amazing; no detail of how the forum worked was spared. No self criticism was shot down; in fact they were fully explored no matter how negative. No assumption was left unquestioned, nothing relevant was off limits. The focus was amazing. If every organization in the world conducted themselves with such openness and depth of philosophical inquiry the world would be a much better place.

Instead we have people like Bush spreading their christian war dogma killing people. It is sickening.

In my experience we have a lot to learn from Werner. It's quite unfortunate whatever it was that REALLY forced him to leave the USA. Shit happens.

So I ask again, what have you against Werner a man that you've likely never met?

I have never met Werner Erhard, nor have I looked at much information about him. I'm here to comment on the paper attached in this thread.

So about the paper. I actually do like the theory as it is presented. It's all about separating words, and giving them a clear definition or distinction. I think as human beings, having a clear sense of what something means is imperative. Reality as we know it, (up/down, red/yellow, apple/banana, man/woman) is all made from language. It's a good idea to understand it to the best of our abilities.

[...]

[...]we do not have a firm definition for not only the words that we use, but for our goals, so instead of getting exactly what we want, we pretend that what we have is what we want. Not to say that I am not a firm believer that happiness can be obtained by taking pleasure in what we want, but sometimes what is making us unhappy can easily be changed by changing the context in which we live.

So back to the paper in question. What's wrong with him defining integrity as 'honoring your word'? I believe that we would all have much more self-respect if we honored our word all the time. For example, I am going to eat healthy, cut out junk food, and lose 10 pounds in 6 weeks, can be a very powerful statement. It can have power if our word means something, aka if we have integrity. On the other hand, how many of us, including myself, have made a New Years resolution that didn't hold? That is because New Years resolutions do not have any power behind them. Why? Because we lack integrity, as it is defined in the paper.

It takes constant work to build up discipline, which I look at as upholding our word, but when we're the type of people that do what we say we do we can count on ourselves, and others can too.

That's just the way I see Werner Erhard's theory of integrity. I could be wrong, I often am, what do you think? I'd love to hear your responses =)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2008 09:08PM by rrmoderator.

AlexShalman:

Please do not violate the rules regarding promotional links regarding Web sites or other Internet locations.

Also, communicate publicly here on the board.

Whatever you have to say can be said openly on the board.

Why hide it through emails?

Read the rules again.

Quote
pwl
Instead we have people like Bush spreading their christian war dogma killing people. It is sickening.

Now who has a fervant hatred here Pwl? Pwl, Have you ever met Bush?

Take a look at yourself and your statement and you will understand why we do not like Werner Erhardt. In a few short months the Bush administration will be in the history books and he will be replaced by someone else and a new chapter will begin. Hardly the same as Werner who just won't freaking go away and keeps spreading his dogma world wide through Landmark Education and the Vantos Group.

Quote
Zorro
Here is some info I found on Wiki:

[en.wikipedia.org]

LOL. They're still doing the slave-labor thing, only trying to sell it to other pyramid builders or top-heavy corporations that need to keep the workers busy, hard-working, unquestioning, obedient, and stupid.


Ellen

Quote
pwl
I am amazed at the fervent hatred you people show to Werner Erhard. What did he ever do to you to deserve such venom?

Wow. In the words of another inveterate Landmark debunker: "Have you taken responsibility for how 'us people' show up for you?"



Ellen