To Escapedintact

When a psychologist or counsellor is treating a client for drug and/or alcohol dependency, it is not necessary for the therapist to "shoot up" or get drunk to enter into the client's world. It is equally not necessary for a therapist to experience an LGAT, or more specifically, a Landmark course to treat the client. My remarks are not a "true for me" statement, rather a relfection on how the mental health profession works with clients suffering from dependencies or from a thought reform process.

As for this "true for me" concept, this notion is drived from Phenomenology and Existentialism and taken to extremes in Est/Landmark. If a statistic is given by someone, it is either true or false. Its truth or falsity is mutually exclusive from whether it is true for an individual. I don't expect Landmark/Est people to understand this distinction so don't stress if you don't.

As for me suggesting that I would do an LE course so I could report on it, I was stressing the need for people to come forward rather than being literal.

No one doubts that est/Le people are intelligent. Actually "thought reform" works better the more intelligent a person is, just like a s/w program works better on a more powerful computer.

Oz

PS - back to the point, is anyone coming forward to tell their story to 60 Minutes in Sydney?
:) :) Oz

What I find incredibly astonishing is that all the 'tweeners sound the same. :shock:

They defend their experience with the LGAT and criticize anyone who says LGATs are cults and brainwashing people, BUT YET ....... they say they don't advise people to go even though they think they received a good experience :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

AND they all have the same crappy attitude that is better known as being an est-hole.

It's amazing to just what extent landmark and all the other LGATs are capable of screwing with your mind. So many people get so screwed in the head and don't even know it.

I mean look at what you wrote to Concerned Oz:

Quote

My suggestion to Concerned Oz was not a recruitment ploy, it was a challenge to put his money where his mouth is. If he thinks that Landmark is such a threat to society he can investigate it and then expose it if need be.

That statement is a screaming example of Erhard/landmark thinking. It's so obvious that it's actually painful that you don't realize how much you've been messed with even after all these years.

Keep in mind Escapedintact is just trying to get a reaction out of people.

Coz

If you read Drew Kopp's paper, he gives plenty of information about his time in Landmark and all the courses he took--that is he does indeed tell us what his 'educational background is.'

And his paper was published on a website related to an institute of higher education--the URL has 'u.arizona.edu' in it.

Thats the University of Arizona--an institute of higher education. And Kopp's paper is a very meaty, closely reasoned item, with lots of details given about LEC room set up at the time Kopp was a participant, and many citations to scholarly literature--plus LEC's own statistics.

Did you read Kopp's paper? We are happy to discuss matters but to win our respect you have to do your homework.

If you dont like the book, admit you do not like the book. You can put it away and go read something else you do like.

You wont get very far by blaming the bookstore or library that happened to provide it.

I have spoken with the Producer again today. She is making some progress but it is slow.

Please come forward if you have a story to tell no matter where you are in the world. She has plenty of Landmark people coming forward. To balance things, she needs the other side of the story. Have you been a participant in any Landmark courses?
Oz

Just a reminder to all that 60 Minutes is still researching the story on Landmark Education. If you have a story to tell from anywhere in the world, please contact the producer -(details are at the start of this thread).

Oz

[b:9a6bfc9cc7]Edit: 8 Sept 2004 Aust EST[/b:9a6bfc9cc7][/color:9a6bfc9cc7]

[b:9a6bfc9cc7]This story is still current and being researched. The website is still requesting people to come forward:[/b:9a6bfc9cc7][/color:9a6bfc9cc7]

[sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au]

Please refer to the thread on this board as to research feedback:


[b:b2a8a02305]Media & Academic Research into Landmark & LGATs[/b:b2a8a02305][/color:b2a8a02305]
[board.culteducation.com]

Oz

Just as an update, I believe that the 60 Minutes research into Landmark Education is still current.

If you have a story of your own personal involvement, please ring them.

Oz

This is great that they are concidering looking into this cult! So what if only the French recognize Landmark as a cult, we can get this ball rolling internationally!
I emailed the 60 minutes producers. Here's what I wrote. (Some parts have been deleted for confidentiality because, yes, I fear landmark retribution) Isn't it ashame how landmark can shut done freedom of speech and freedom of inquiry with lawsuits? Anyway, my email was:

[i:9e1332cf06]"Dear 60 minutes producers,
I'm from California and I'm writing you to highly encourage you to pursue the story concerning Landmark Forum and it's bad social consequences for many involved. I cannot stress enough how important it is to look into this organization and dig up the dirt. I firmly believe that my country is experiencing a social epidemic do to the coercive 'group think' generated by this and simular organizations. They are operating secretly, by word of mouth, and behind closed doors. They encourage people not to tell their spouses or families what occurs during the seminar- only to sign them up. They are dividing friends and family and polarizing groups. It is quite frankly out of hand here in America, and we need some international support to bring them into the light. I know that you will hear plenty of enthusiastic accounts from Landmark attendees. I also know that few people ever want to admit they've been victimized- no one wants to be the black sheep. Especially when they think they are surrounded by a big room of 'happy' to participate people. Additionally, Landmark uses every trick in the book along with intense peer pressure to keep anyone from speaking negatively about their methods. They are insidious. Please, please continue looking into this story.
My experience is personal. My friend of several years was promised a contract with an agent- if he only attended the Forum 'to improve their working relationship'. I drove him home from the experience and immediately noticed something was not right. I began deconstruction the experience with him, and two days later he literally broke down into sobs upon the realization of the unscrupulous tactics that had been used on him. Coming out of the brainwash was a scary experience for both of us. Today, the agent (from [b:9e1332cf06]deleted [/b:9e1332cf06], the biggest [b:9e1332cf06]deleted[/b:9e1332cf06] here in America) who promised my friend the contract, has been fired from her high position job because she neglected her duties as she got deeper into Landmark and spent all her time 'volunteering' for them instead. That agent defaulted on contracts with approximately 20 people over the course of a year. She's still entrenched with Landmark forum, and was suckered into buying a should-be condemned house in the ghetto for at least twice the market value. She's now deeply in debt, and jobless. Except for her 'volunteering' at Landmark.
This story is one of thousands. You will be doing your country (at least) a great social service by exposing these frauds.
Signed
[b:9e1332cf06]deleted[/b:9e1332cf06]
California"[/i:9e1332cf06]

Please anyone, write even if it's only to encourage them to go forward with the story. And express the gravity of the situation. We know that Landmark is swamping them with pro-accounts.

And any Pro- Landmarkians who are reading this.... Heed this warning- Get out NOW! I'm forming an angry mob with torches to come after you. Just like they did in France, Sweden, and TRANSILVANIA! Your Frankenstein brain transplant experiments are in danger of EXTINCTION.

Hi Marc, (hope that's not your real name)

That's great! The more, the merrier.

Landmark was closed down in Sweden recently, after an unflattering news piece.

I have tried to get a "60 Minutes" transcript from the 1991 segment about Werner Erhard, but haven't been successful. Perhaps you might have some idea about getting it to post to usenet.

Please check your private mailbox for a message.


Ellen