Spoony, you're so so right! That's exactly it. At least (Lekkie are you listening...?) that is THE signal that something is wrong.

Lekkie, I know why you think it's not about sales and it's not about statistics. Because Landmark stands for a world that works for everyone. Because you know and Landmarkers know that when someone enrolles, he or she will be transformed. The cheering at the office is not because a statistic is met, it is because you and your co-volunteers are on target for transforming the planet. 'Cause that's the game you play! Right?
But like Spoony said: why aren't the transformational results logged? Why is no-one cheering when: so-and-so has a new boyfriend, so-and-so has a new job, so-and-so is talking with a government representative of some country to help negogiate peace (if ever)? The ONLY time Landmark focusses on the actual breakthroughs, like REALLY is during an introduction evening, so as to... enroll people.
How many people do you know inside Landmark that have money issues? (debts) How many outside Landmark? How many are in a fullfilling relationship, and outside Landmark? How many people do you see that are actually deeply at peace with themselves, relaxed, okay with things as they are, NOWHERE to get to? Do you see differences in that between people inside and outside of Landmark?

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caligari
It's all about sales. And saying it's just not about sales is part of how it's sold.

Ok, so it's about sales and also it's not about sales, but something much larger than that. Does that 'fit'?

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Lekkie

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caligari
It's all about sales. And saying it's just not about sales is part of how it's sold.

Ok, so it's about sales and also it's not about sales, but something much larger than that. Does that 'fit'?

typical landmark jargon that tries to confuse you. Saying that it is that but it is not that. Can be applied on anything.

- my car is my favorite toy and it is not my favorite
- I love myself - there is nothing wrong with me but I am full of nasty racket.
- there is nothing to change - only to accept - but you have to transform yourself
- you are already ok - but you are a meaning making machine

Oh man - what a load of crappiola!

Landmark uses this paradoxical thinking a lot. It is part of mind control. Your brain starts to accept what it hears.
After a while nothing is true anymore...they are just different word coming out of the mouth of the forum leader. You start to think that nothing really exists but different words and opinions and rackets and what not.

It is very clever. But just a technique.

Lekkie has been banned but yet he has not :-)

'Being banned' is just a conversation. ;)

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Lekkie

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caligari
It's all about sales. And saying it's just not about sales is part of how it's sold.

Ok, so it's about sales and also it's not about sales, but something much larger than that. Does that 'fit'?

It hasn't fit until now and it's unlikely to in the future. You can try and fool most people only so long.

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Lekkie

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caligari
It's all about sales. And saying it's just not about sales is part of how it's sold.

Ok, so it's about sales and also it's not about sales, but something much larger than that. Does that 'fit'?

Werner Erhard was a salesman. He sold used cars and then encyclopedias. Then he trained other salesmen (mostly women) to go out and sell stuff. His sales "techniques" were the old-fashioned high-pressure, foot-in-the-door, slick, sneaky, manipulative, and under-handed tricks of the trade from two hundred odd years' history of traveling salesmen and peddlers of snake-oil. When he realized he could profit from selling "nothing," or some bogus intellectual content disguised as enlightenment/wisdom/education/awareness, he upped his take from a percentage to the whole enchilada. And using his brainwashed followers as slave labor made his profit even higher. You are a fool if you think his cut'n'paste "religious philosophy" is anything special. Much of it is ordinary psychology or philosophy, some
Dale Carnegie-type stuff, some linguistic theory, military-type indoctrination, and some bizzaro-world "junk science." Educate yourself. Don't purchase the CliffsNotes version and think you've done the deed.


Ellen

Elena,

I love what you wrote. The Cliff Notes analogy is so appropriate! LOL.

It's revolting to know that Werner was a salesman. People like him are a disgrace to the profession and make me want to puke. I'm a Salesman myself and a Professional one at that. In fact the requriement of my position is that one MUST have at the minimum a college degree. Preferably a Technical degree to top it off. Both of which I have. If I pulled a sales stunt in the same vein as Werner I would be fired. I am living proof that his junk doesn't work, especially in technical sales. I tried Landmarks technology in my PREVIOUS technical sales job. I went MONTHS without a single sale. In the end I was let go. Now that I have a new sales job I'm doing it like it should be done WITHOUT Werner's so called technology. Guess what?? I'm totally kicking ass!

My customers like me. My potential customers like me. My collegues like me. I'm learning tons of stuff about not only my equipment but my customers equipment, processes, and operations. Also, it has been requested of me to become an expert in application of my equipment in the largest industrial sector in my region.

I also own a small part time business that is successful in it's own right. I have to "sell" my service and deliver quality work. Landmarks technology would never work with it either. If a person used the so called "technology" they would come off as just another huckster out to make a buck.

I hope you Leknoids are reading this. You're crap doesn't work in the real world. I've been there, done it, and failed so miserably that it totally screwed up my life for about about a year and a half.

I could go on and on but I feel I've made my point.

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Lekkie
nettie - so what are you going to do about it then? If you think they are EVIL - then how do you set them straight? Just a question.

What is nettie going to to about it? She's been doing something about it for a long time now- making very valuable contributions to this posting board and by doing so is alerting the whole world to the nature and goals of Landmark. Have you read her posts, especially the thread entitled "Getting Back My Life and Thoughts After Landmark"? And coming from someone who has been directly involved with Landmark, Nettie's contributions have been especially invaluable. I've certainly learned a lot from her posts.

Knowledge is power, and Nettie has been giving us knowledge about Landmark for a long time now.

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nettie
Landmark is pretty stupid.../quote]

I wouldn't say that nettie. You could call Landmark a lot of things: unscrupulous, ruthless, vicious, mind-controlling, liars, deceivers, etc. but stupid they're not. They know EXACTLY what they're doing: they make huge profits by manipulating people and they're very good at it. When it comes to Landmark it all boils down to money, money and more money. And nobody can say they're not wildly successful at it.

Kudo's to Nettie's posts and efforts. Lekkie better realize that Nettie is a force to be reconded with and isn't bs-ing around either. Nettie is serious!

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Zorro
Kudo's to Nettie's posts and efforts. Lekkie better realize that Nettie is a force to be reconded with and isn't bs-ing around either. Nettie is serious!

nettie will not be silenced by landmark scare tactics - a lot of people do no dare stand up against landmark -why?
because landmark tries to silence you by saying that your life will not work unless you fully endorse their thought system...if that is no a cult I don't know what is? Maybe Coca Cola? Coke is it!