What happened to Nutrino? Why no more posts?

In my long and sad wanderings through this board over the last few weeks I've taken the most comfort in Nutrino's posts, giving me hope for the survival of rationality and clarity of the human mind in the midst of a primordial swamp of New Age mind-fucking leeches. He seemed genuinely dedicated to the pursuit and value of truth. And he was funny. Where'd he go?? Anyone know?

Nutrino, if you are still lurking, please consider partaking again in the discussion. Your insights are needed here. I see from your final post that you reached a boiling point of frustration, but the topic -- LGAT infiltration into government and military -- is too important to abandon, and I for one would like to further it. So please log on if you can.

Nutrino left for lashing out in a post and going off on a political tirade, and if memory serves correct, attacking my profession.

Actually I have come to a more nuanced conclusion, one that I would never have a year or two ago.

This is: the anti-cultist and the cultist can be equal but opposite neurotics. Not that they are. Not every participant in LGAT is, ipso faco, a neurotic, not is every one who speaks contra the cult phenomenon a "counter-neurotic"....

Strange too, that the culture at large has pretty much disposed of the idea of neurotocism as a category of persons. We now speak in terms of need for Seroquel or Abilify... yet the arena of unconscious fantasy, or phantasy remains rich and unexplored.

Contemporary psychoanalysis speaks of the four (sometimes more) psychologies of psychoanalysis, especially Dr Pine, who has addressed the quadruple of Ego , Object Relations , Self, and Drive Psychologies.

My current assessment is that the cult phenomenon, as well as the resistance to the cult phenomenon, have deep structures in the Primal Scene, the Family Romance, and the Castration fantasy triad (see Knafo and Feiner for more on this)...

The realtion of trainer to trainee has a great potential charge of Primal Scene reactivation, the embrace or absorbtion phase into the cult/LGAT an enmeshement into the complexities of the Family Romance, and of course the ritual abnegations and diespowerments strongly resonate with the Castration Fantasy... in sum, the cult/lgat phenomenon (to borrow a phrase) IS psychoanalysis in reverse in an almost literal form...

The Trainer or Higher Being On Stage is almost the perfect negative form of the Phychoanalyst, where Freud's "evenly suspended listening" is replaced with incessant diatribe and belief stuffing.

But then, so is 98% of talk radio which is, weirdly and disturbingly often like the free association of the Schizotypal personality. Alright, now comes the most significant question for the abstinent perceiver of all this. How is it that the deep levels of our collective psyche feel a profound need to engage in reverse psychoanalysis ? Whey do we hunger, unconsciously, to revisit the Primal Scene, the regress to the Family Romance, and to expose ourselves to the Castration dynamic ? What lower planes of our minds have been activated, and how, that exerts such felt pull into these scenarios ?

Then the reversed question. Why are we here ? What unconscious drives make it necessary or compelling to "work off the background scene" of the cult, the the LGAT, the narcissistic Guru, the syndromatic radio personality ? it's kind of like asking why America has a deep unspoken, and unspeakable fascination with the Sociopathic personality (always made acceptable by an appeal to higher motives.....) ?

I think we should ask ourselves, in the most uncomfortable ways, what are our own psychodynamics that makes this topic irresistable ? Do we, could we, in all of our concern and righteousness, our indignations, have a powerful unconscious identification with power, with control, and perhaps most unsettlingly, with castration, or the need to castrate, or to participate in castration ritual ? Are we actually motivated to be here to Castrate the Castrator ? Do we seek to use the libidinized charge of their power against them to magnify our own sense of power ? In some psychological sense ?

Well, you know what was said of Freud, and why Freudian insight will ever be unpopular, is that he dove deeper, stayed down longer, and came up dirtier than enyone else. Psychoanalysis unpeels some pretty distasteful stuff. And it makes some who present themselves as strong as corrupt, weak, and pathetic.

Anyway, at this juncture I must conclude that until the Unconscious Fantasy structure of cult power relations is understood, communicated, grasped, and really processed on multiple levels of understanding the neurotic game will be an unending psychodrama, with the cultoids unconsciously needing their critics so they may more fully cathect their Family Romance fantasies... because, you know, it makes them worthy of external effort to be attacked.

To be well analysed in Psychoanalytic terms might be another story. But to measure ourselves in Psychoanalytic terms would be another story too.

Very well, over and out for possibly another year. There isn't much else to say. One Minor God will be knocked off of his pedestal only to be replaced with another Minor God. The outraged will always be the outraged. Fools will forever be fools. Freud didn't live in vain and only a tiny minority will ever listen. And round and round we go.

Until the culture at large can handle the idea of unconscious fantasy we will perpetually be driven by unconscious fantasy, whether it motivates us to live lives of the blandest conformity, the most inexplicably extreme affiliation with sociopaths and saviors, or makes us finger wagging critics who feel it is our place in life to neutralize them, we are the children of our childhoods and our parent's childhoods and their parent's childhoods.

These are surprising tough molds to break out of, regardless of whether we define our selves as the "truly free ones"... no doubt they define themselves as the "truly free ones" as well...

Good luck.

Uh . . . . huh?

Well, Nutrino, thanks for dropping in on my request, but I have to say . . . it sounds like you need a little fresh air. This with the caveat that my perspectives are most likely not as nuanced as yours. However, too many books on castration makes a girl like me get queasy so I can't say I'll be reading up too much on that particular line of reasoning as to why I've been obsessed with LGATs for three weeks, no matter how accurate it may or may not be.

I wonder though, once you've gone spilunking into the dirty psyche with a pipe clamped in your jaws and a good case of penis envy, what do you gain once you've surfaced? The cave is dirty. The cave will always be dark, damp and dirty.

My point being, perhaps we can reach the deeper levels of understanding of our motivations, but does that neutralize them? Or ever really change their fundamental structure? You seem to hint at a final resolution, but this smacks of LGAT philosophy to me. Perhaps I misunderstand you.

As for me, I'm here because my lover left me for an LGAT. Hence, my new and acute interest in the subject. Now, should I choose to stay on this board for years, as others have, (though most likely I won't) it would most likely be for the prosaic reason that I find this shit interesting. And I don't consider myself a "finger wagging critic" nor do I understand this compulsion to denigrate the people who find cults and LGATs egregiously destructive, through personal or familial experience.

And really, finger wagging is a far sight short of what I'd like to do to these fucking groups if I had my druthers.

You certainly have changed since your last post.

Interesting how all your years of involvement with est and LGATs, etc, has led to a similar attack on "the victim" -- in this case, the people who have been hurt in some way by these groups.

I suppose if, in your view, psychoanalysis somehow renders the strong into the weak and pathetic, none of us will fare well under its light. We are all a bunch of weak, pathetic, finger wagging castrators, blindly playing our roles within one of the 4 currently available psychologies.

What a bummer.

You said this might not be true of everyone. I don't think it's true of me, but I haven't been trained by and LGAT or a Freudian analyst not to trust myself yet. Thank god.

In the meantime, I read and post on this board, guilt free, blissfully ignorant of my deep and potentially disturbed motives, shamelessly indulging my obsession, healing my wounds through dialogue with others, and learning a lot in the meantime.

Thanks again for checking in, and good luck to you too.

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nutrino
Strange too, that the culture at large has pretty much disposed of the idea of neurotocism as a category of persons. We now speak in terms of need for Seroquel or Abilify... yet the arena of unconscious fantasy, or phantasy remains rich and unexplored.

Perhaps I've missed your meaning here or am being overly picky or pedantic (or merely out-of-date) but I don't think anyone's replaced the psychological "walking wounded" with the actively hallucinating as inferred by your above suggestion. Are there psychiatrists prescribing anti-psychotics to the merely neurotic? Or have the formerly neurotic been "up-coded" into a more acute state of disease?

Ellen

I am not a fan of psychoanalysis! Some folks get into 5 sessions a week of that stuff...Metaphor, myth, all fun stuff...I don't see any evidence that it helps people much, there is even some evidence it can make things worse for people...but to each their own, its a free country.

But there is something to be said about folks getting locked into a negative oppositional relationship with an abuser, or a substitute for that abuser who happens to have Power.

But I think doing some speaking out against the abuses of power can be helpful as part of the healing process. Eventually you work it through, and its not as powerful or as much of a Trigger for the person.

But for folks who have been sucked into any type of LGAT or cultish Guru scene, I think they need to be aware to not jump from the frying pan into the fire, or to another guru, or antiguru. Also, just trying to forgive and forget without thinking it through is not helpful either.

But again, very subjective and complex stuff.
For many people, after an extended period of healing, therapy, thinking, writing, they do become less reactive about what happened to them.
Also, some folks are just curious about how it all works.

It seems to me the core issue is about abusive and exploitative relationships between people.