Re: what I'm going to do
Posted by:
ON2 LF
()
Date: December 23, 2007 06:11AM
Quote
John Fox
Mostly ready. It's just a matter of days now.
John
PS. Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas to you John Fox!
Re: what I'm going to do
Posted by:
Samuel
()
Date: December 26, 2007 07:41AM
When does 60 minutes come on?
Re: what I'm going to do
Posted by:
John Fox
()
Date: December 26, 2007 07:56PM
Just hang in there. The important thing is that we do it right.
I'll make an announcement in this very thread as soon as there is something to know. You won't miss out.
John
I'll make an announcement in this very thread as soon as there is something to know. You won't miss out.
John
Re: what I'm going to do
Posted by:
Jack Oskar Larm
()
Date: December 28, 2007 10:56AM
I'm guessing that this thread is not a bad place for the following list supplied by Apostate from another thread (Jesus Christians):
Resisting Influence
Prepared by Philip Zimbardo and Cindy X. Wang
Dr. Z’s 20 Hints About Resisting Unwanted Influences On You
(Here is a set of general advice that I typically offer to students at the end of my courses at Stanford University, whether the course is Introduction to Psychology, Mind Control, or Exploring Human Nature. They cut across the different varieties of influence and are really generic recommendations of how to become more influence savvy.)
1. Do not maintain an illusion of “personal invulnerability” – If it can happen to them, then it can happen to you too.
2. Be modest in self-estimates – it is better to perceive yourself as vulnerable and take necessary precautions than to go “where angels fear to tread.”
3. Engage in life as fully as possible, yet be mindful and aware, attuned to the moment, and prepared to disengage and think critically when necessary – people are generally good and trustworthy, but others make their careers as “influence professionals” who try to get you to do what they want.
4. Be aware of Cialdini’s contexts and principles of compliance; when you sense you are operating on one of the principles, look to the relevant context being manipulated on you and pull back; where the context is obvious, expect the principle to be activated.
5. Be ready to say the three most difficult phrases in the world: “I was wrong”, “I made a mistake”, and “I’ve changed my mind.” Cut bait, accept immediate loss of money, face, etc. that could lead to bigger long term losses – Dissonance and consistency then go limp in the face of such self-honesty.
6. Separate your ego from your actions; maintain a sense of positive self-esteem, that is independent form the occasional failure and your stupid actions at times (Laugh at yourself once a day. This is especially true for shy folks.)
7. Separate messenger from message in your mind, process each systematically not heuristically, be aware of being tired, a “cognitive miser,” wanting simple short cuts, giving in to non-verbal tricks. There are no free lunches and no quick and dirty paths to anything worthwhile – sloth and greed breed gullibility.
8. Insist on a second opinion, a delay in signing contract while thinking about it away from the situation; never immediately sign on the dotted line.
9. Develop ‘Discrepancy Detectors,’ alerting mental and intuition systems that stem from vague feelings of something wrong, something in the situation or the story you are being handed that does not fit to analysis to counteraction -> dissent -> disobedience.
10. Try playing devil’s advocate, be the deviant, to assess the reactions against you and that position, when the influence agent says he/she is only doing X for your good.
11. Avoid ‘Total Situations’ where you lose contact with your social support and informational networks (cults and the most powerful forces of social influence thrive there), you do not want all your reinforcers to come from these new sources.
12. In all authority confrontations: be polite, individuate yourself and the other, make it clear it is not “your problem” in the process, or situation; describe the problem objectively, do not get emotional, state clearly the remedy sought, and the positive consequences expected – hold off on the threats and costs to them or their agency as last resort.
13. When in some situation of authority encounter, you are being challenged – ask for identification, demand to see it, get person’s name (write it down) and all details about the encounter.
14. Never allow yourself to be cut off emotionally from your familiar and trusted reference groups of family, friends, neighbors, co-workers – do not accept putdowns against them.
15. Remember all ideologies are just words, abstractions used for particular political, social, economic purposes; be wary taking actions proposed as necessary to sustain that ideology – always question if the means justify the ends, and suggest alternatives.
16. Think hard before putting abstract principles before real people in following other’s advice to act in specific ways against what they represent.
17. Trust your intuition, gut feelings when you sense you are becoming a target of influence, put up your counter-arguing mentality, and dig down for sources for resistance.
18. Rules are abstractions for controlling behavior and eliciting compliance and conformity – challenge them when necessary: ask, who made the rule? What purpose does it serve? Who maintains it? Does it make sense in this specific situation? What happens if you violate it? Insist that the rule be made explicit, so it cannot be modified and altered over time to suit the influence agent.
19. When developing causal attributions for unusual behavior – yours or others – never rush to the dispositional, always start by considering possible situational forces and variables that are the true causal agent, and seek to highlight them and to change them where possible.
20. Imagine Dr. Z as your conscience, your personal Jiminy Cricket (from Pinocchio) sitting on your shoulder and saying be cool, be confident, be collected—to avoid becoming a Jack Ass.
Resisting Influence
Prepared by Philip Zimbardo and Cindy X. Wang
Dr. Z’s 20 Hints About Resisting Unwanted Influences On You
(Here is a set of general advice that I typically offer to students at the end of my courses at Stanford University, whether the course is Introduction to Psychology, Mind Control, or Exploring Human Nature. They cut across the different varieties of influence and are really generic recommendations of how to become more influence savvy.)
1. Do not maintain an illusion of “personal invulnerability” – If it can happen to them, then it can happen to you too.
2. Be modest in self-estimates – it is better to perceive yourself as vulnerable and take necessary precautions than to go “where angels fear to tread.”
3. Engage in life as fully as possible, yet be mindful and aware, attuned to the moment, and prepared to disengage and think critically when necessary – people are generally good and trustworthy, but others make their careers as “influence professionals” who try to get you to do what they want.
4. Be aware of Cialdini’s contexts and principles of compliance; when you sense you are operating on one of the principles, look to the relevant context being manipulated on you and pull back; where the context is obvious, expect the principle to be activated.
5. Be ready to say the three most difficult phrases in the world: “I was wrong”, “I made a mistake”, and “I’ve changed my mind.” Cut bait, accept immediate loss of money, face, etc. that could lead to bigger long term losses – Dissonance and consistency then go limp in the face of such self-honesty.
6. Separate your ego from your actions; maintain a sense of positive self-esteem, that is independent form the occasional failure and your stupid actions at times (Laugh at yourself once a day. This is especially true for shy folks.)
7. Separate messenger from message in your mind, process each systematically not heuristically, be aware of being tired, a “cognitive miser,” wanting simple short cuts, giving in to non-verbal tricks. There are no free lunches and no quick and dirty paths to anything worthwhile – sloth and greed breed gullibility.
8. Insist on a second opinion, a delay in signing contract while thinking about it away from the situation; never immediately sign on the dotted line.
9. Develop ‘Discrepancy Detectors,’ alerting mental and intuition systems that stem from vague feelings of something wrong, something in the situation or the story you are being handed that does not fit to analysis to counteraction -> dissent -> disobedience.
10. Try playing devil’s advocate, be the deviant, to assess the reactions against you and that position, when the influence agent says he/she is only doing X for your good.
11. Avoid ‘Total Situations’ where you lose contact with your social support and informational networks (cults and the most powerful forces of social influence thrive there), you do not want all your reinforcers to come from these new sources.
12. In all authority confrontations: be polite, individuate yourself and the other, make it clear it is not “your problem” in the process, or situation; describe the problem objectively, do not get emotional, state clearly the remedy sought, and the positive consequences expected – hold off on the threats and costs to them or their agency as last resort.
13. When in some situation of authority encounter, you are being challenged – ask for identification, demand to see it, get person’s name (write it down) and all details about the encounter.
14. Never allow yourself to be cut off emotionally from your familiar and trusted reference groups of family, friends, neighbors, co-workers – do not accept putdowns against them.
15. Remember all ideologies are just words, abstractions used for particular political, social, economic purposes; be wary taking actions proposed as necessary to sustain that ideology – always question if the means justify the ends, and suggest alternatives.
16. Think hard before putting abstract principles before real people in following other’s advice to act in specific ways against what they represent.
17. Trust your intuition, gut feelings when you sense you are becoming a target of influence, put up your counter-arguing mentality, and dig down for sources for resistance.
18. Rules are abstractions for controlling behavior and eliciting compliance and conformity – challenge them when necessary: ask, who made the rule? What purpose does it serve? Who maintains it? Does it make sense in this specific situation? What happens if you violate it? Insist that the rule be made explicit, so it cannot be modified and altered over time to suit the influence agent.
19. When developing causal attributions for unusual behavior – yours or others – never rush to the dispositional, always start by considering possible situational forces and variables that are the true causal agent, and seek to highlight them and to change them where possible.
20. Imagine Dr. Z as your conscience, your personal Jiminy Cricket (from Pinocchio) sitting on your shoulder and saying be cool, be confident, be collected—to avoid becoming a Jack Ass.
Re: what I'm going to do
Posted by:
Zorro
()
Date: December 28, 2007 12:41PM
Jack,
Good posting. I hope a lot of people read it.
Good posting. I hope a lot of people read it.
Re: what I'm going to do
Posted by:
Jack Oskar Larm
()
Date: December 28, 2007 01:21PM
There have been quite a number of good lists and suggestions for dealing with corruptive influence on this site.
I think this list is worth printing out and sticking on your fridge or computer. I particularly like No. 5 regarding being humble enough to admit the error of our ways - something most Lekkies and the like wouldn't know how to do. This is also very good advice for any of us to keep from straying into arrogant, brutish behaviour.
And No. 7 about listening to the message and not the messenger is pure gold. I mean, how many Lekkies are influenced by the charisma of the speaker? The truth of this is often revealed when they can't articulate what it is that they have been taught because they were so 'infatuated' by the person on stage. And when this is coupled with tiredness and wanting short-cuts to 'great knowledge', it is dangerous. Funny how the typical Lekkie addict wants short, simple answers to just about everything. I just love SLOTH AND GREED BREED GULLIBILITY! How true, how true...
I think this list is worth printing out and sticking on your fridge or computer. I particularly like No. 5 regarding being humble enough to admit the error of our ways - something most Lekkies and the like wouldn't know how to do. This is also very good advice for any of us to keep from straying into arrogant, brutish behaviour.
And No. 7 about listening to the message and not the messenger is pure gold. I mean, how many Lekkies are influenced by the charisma of the speaker? The truth of this is often revealed when they can't articulate what it is that they have been taught because they were so 'infatuated' by the person on stage. And when this is coupled with tiredness and wanting short-cuts to 'great knowledge', it is dangerous. Funny how the typical Lekkie addict wants short, simple answers to just about everything. I just love SLOTH AND GREED BREED GULLIBILITY! How true, how true...
Re: what I'm going to do
Posted by:
ON2 LF
()
Date: January 16, 2008 05:23AM
can anyone tell me why LE is registered in the US with the BBB, but LEI (Landmark Education International) is not registered in Canada? It seems odd. But there are five resolved complaints on the report from BBB in the US.
[goldengate.bbb.org]
[mainlandbc.bbb.org]
[goldengate.bbb.org]
[mainlandbc.bbb.org]
Re: what I'm going to do
Posted by:
Samuel
()
Date: February 10, 2008 06:35AM
Quote
John Fox
Funny that you should mention "60 Minutes".
There's a surprise coming soon.
John
Anymore of an update on this???
Re: what I'm going to do
Posted by:
John Fox
()
Date: February 11, 2008 09:14PM
Oops. Yes. Sorry about that. Dang.
Actually, it's the item that has been announced in this related post. Please accept my apologies for not updating here first. I had some problems with lobbing a torrent file in to The Pirate Bay and someone else did it for me. A further different person made the announcement post. Hence it kinda didn't click-in to me that I should update this post. Apologies.
Yes, this is a 60 Minutes story on Werner Erhard which is not available from CBS due to a "legal hold". (Think of it as future headache prevention for CBS.) The video itself is very very interesting. Hence it's worth getting a copy of.
Can't tell how we managed to land a copy of something that is officially unavailable and otherwise doesn't exist any more. But we did do some cleanup work on the audio to pretty much completely remove some interference noise ... back to comparative crystal clarity.
Anyway, if you have a P2P / Torrent program, make sure you download the torrent file and grab a copy.
And enjoy the freedom of information that can be brought to you via the internet. The electronic Wild West at its best.
John
Actually, it's the item that has been announced in this related post. Please accept my apologies for not updating here first. I had some problems with lobbing a torrent file in to The Pirate Bay and someone else did it for me. A further different person made the announcement post. Hence it kinda didn't click-in to me that I should update this post. Apologies.
Yes, this is a 60 Minutes story on Werner Erhard which is not available from CBS due to a "legal hold". (Think of it as future headache prevention for CBS.) The video itself is very very interesting. Hence it's worth getting a copy of.
Can't tell how we managed to land a copy of something that is officially unavailable and otherwise doesn't exist any more. But we did do some cleanup work on the audio to pretty much completely remove some interference noise ... back to comparative crystal clarity.
Anyway, if you have a P2P / Torrent program, make sure you download the torrent file and grab a copy.
And enjoy the freedom of information that can be brought to you via the internet. The electronic Wild West at its best.
John
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