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boonetahoe
I don't think anyone has ever thought about having trainers "pretend to be graduates." There are thousands and thousands off GLF graduates who would speak glowingly of the training and be willing to be filmed. The video clips weren't produced by Great Life, they were made (and published on YouTube) by an independent company composed of graduates. GLF had no control over how they did this. I know, however, that their ultimate goal is to produce a feature similar to The Secret and that they interviewed the GLF trainers as guest commentators for that video. Since the video wasn't meant to directly promote GLF, the video producers listed their professional credentials instead of their training credentials (as per The Secret.)

If the goal was to create a video similar to the Secret then why were all of the Great Life trainers talking about the Great Life Trainings and not a series of principles, processes or other topics that exist independently of Great Life? I watched a few of the videos and they were completely devoted to promoting the Great Life Trainings. You're either a fool or a liar for trying to convince us that these videos were made for some purpose other than the promotion of your trainings.

If they were intended to be used in a feature like "The Secret" then it seems like there would have more there then just a promotion of the Great Life Trainings. As far as the "Professional Credentials" are concerned, using a company's employees in a video promoting the company then choosing not to acknowledge them as employees is completely dishonest. If it was produced by graduates and starring trainers then you are absolutely responsible for the content. To say otherwise is merely an attempt to avoid accountability.

Impacted was absolutely right to criticize your attempt to prove that the company was not fictitious. It costs about $20 to register an entity with the state but it takes a lot more than that to honestly be able to say that a company is in business.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2007 11:09PM by formerimpactgrad.

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boonetahoe
I'm comfortable with my own level of research into psychology and heuristics (and the education/study I've conducted) and I'm comfortable with the level of psychological oversight into the LGAT with which I'm associated.

I rather doubt that a debate with you regarding my study or qualifications will yield much in the way of mutual enlightenment (regardless of how thorough my studies have been.) And, that's why I'm not addressing your assertions tit-for-tat. If I gave you an impressive bibliography of the books and studies I've read, would you then be open to the possibility that you may be off-base in generally rejecting the LGAT model?

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boonetahoe
Unfortunately, I can't go into the data, method, etc. without exposing my identity (and I'd rather not do that given the topic, ie. Impact.) Let's just say that my approach was considerably more scientific and with a much larger base of respondants than yours.

I thought I would move these posts of yours over to this forum and quote a pm that you sent me...

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boonetahoe
"You claim to have gathered evidence but you have made no effort to disclose any of it." If I tell you how I gathered "evidence" (which I have never claimed is strictly "hard evidence" but that is substantial, anectdotal evidence,) it will absolutely expose my identity. I would rather not do that because of Hans and Sally's vindictive nature and some of the things I've said have been very negative toward them. You have shown no willingness to protect my identity, so I'm certainly not going to discuss it with you. So, I promise that (unless you've spoken to hundreds of LGAT graduates a year or more after they completed the training,) you have less formal and less complete information on this matter than do I. Of course, you're not going to want to believe that, so I'm wasting my breath.

Two things are funny about your pm. The first was that obviously you had claimed to have gained "hard evidence" but you tried to retract your statement when pressed. The second was that when you wrote this message, I had known your identity for some time but had not "outed you" on the thread.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2007 11:29PM by formerimpactgrad.

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formerimpactgrad

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boonetahoe
I don't think anyone has ever thought about having trainers "pretend to be graduates." There are thousands and thousands off GLF graduates who would speak glowingly of the training and be willing to be filmed. The video clips weren't produced by Great Life, they were made (and published on YouTube) by an independent company composed of graduates. GLF had no control over how they did this. I know, however, that their ultimate goal is to produce a feature similar to The Secret and that they interviewed the GLF trainers as guest commentators for that video. Since the video wasn't meant to directly promote GLF, the video producers listed their professional credentials instead of their training credentials (as per The Secret.)

If the goal was to create a video similar to the Secret then why were all of the Great Life trainers talking about the Great Life Trainings and not a series of principles, processes or other topics that exist independently of Great Life? I watched a few of the videos and they were completely devoted to promoting the Great Life Trainings. You're either a fool or a liar for trying to convince us that these videos were made for some purpose other than the promotion of your trainings.

If they were intended to be used in a feature like "The Secret" then it seems like there would have more there then just a promotion of the Great Life Trainings. As far as the "Professional Credentials" are concerned, using a company's employees in a video promoting the company then choosing not to acknowledge them as employees is completely dishonest. If it was produced by graduates and starring trainers then you are absolutely responsible for the content. To say otherwise is merely an attempt to avoid accountability.

Impacted was absolutely right to criticize your attempt to prove that the company was not fictitious. It costs about $20 to register an entity with the state but it takes a lot more than that to honestly be able to say that a company is in business.

Very true formerimpact grad, very true.

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boonetahoe

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Impacted
>>The foundation has no control of the content of the videos mentioned here<<

Maybe you should try "inspiring" instead of controlling.

(chuckle.)

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Are you not IN the videos YOURSELF?!?!

Yes, there's a clip of me looking and sounding like a doofus.

Well, I wish I could say you haven't come across this way on the Rick Ross forums.

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If the goal was to create a video similar to the Secret then why were all of the Great Life trainers talking about the Great Life Trainings and not a series of principles, processes or other topics that exist independently of Great Life? I watched a few of the videos and they were completely devoted to promoting the Great Life Trainings. You're either a fool or a liar for trying to convince us that these videos were made for some purpose other than the promotion of your trainings.

If they were intended to be used in a feature like "The Secret" then it seems like there would have more there then just a promotion of the Great Life Trainings. As far as the "Professional Credentials" are concerned, using a company's employees in a video promoting the company then choosing not to acknowledge them as employees is completely dishonest. If it was produced by graduates and starring trainers then you are absolutely responsible for the content. To say otherwise is merely an attempt to avoid accountability.

They DID record much more than just Great Life comments. In the video clips, however, they included only those portions that weren't necessarily going to be used in the overall video.

Regardless, I still don't see how using professional credentials (instead of trainer credentials) amounts to any form of advantage for the Great Life. Everyone knows who the trainers are. How could omitting their training credentials in any way "help" the Great Life? I don't get it.

On the other hand, it's a little self-laudatory to say "Brett Harward, Great Life Trainer." If I were an outside observer, I would wonder "who cares that he's a trainer for your company? What does he do in 'real life?'" It seems to me that it would be a little self-congratulatory to list their training credentials (since those are basically manufactured by the training company,) instead of listing professional credentials. In short, listing their professional credentials would seem the most honest approach.

In any case, I'm just guessing at the thinking that went into this decision, since I have no idea why the producers decided to do it this way.

But, if you guys are looking for a rope to hang someone with, this isn't any more or less nonsensical than the other things you've pointed to in the past.

Boone,

>>Incorrect. Great Life Foundation (the "foundation",) was formed (I believe) in 2004 as a Utah State non-profit organization. Harmony Institute (which was the successor to Impact) ceased operations near the same time and referred its graduates to the foundation. <<

I want to return to this statement of yours.

I believe it's key to understanding who you are (as a person) and and for you, hopefully, to get the stand I am.

Now that some time has passed since you wrote this, I must ask, do you really stand by this as the truth?!?!

Would the people closest to you at GLF see this as truth?

Namely that "Harmony just before ceasing operations merely referred its graduates to Great Life."

That's a true statement to you?

Let's suppose you said that to someone not familiar with what actually happened.

Would they, based on what you have shared, know that:

1) The Great Life Foundation is in the same building as the Harmony Institute?

2) GLF inherited ALL of its furniture and office supplies?

3) Each and every one of the HI trainers became GLF trainers instantly?

4) The processes used by HI at the time it ceased and GLF began were IDENTICAL.

5) ______________________________ anything else you or others would want to share here?


Would your spiritual authorities, reading this exchange, hold you as having been honest in your dealings with your fellow man?

I have such mixed feelings about you, mostly negative, but mixed nonetheless.

I get you were and I were burned in similar ways by the Bergers; I get you and I have many dear friends still recovering; I see you and I as being concerned about others being burned even today; I get you and I would like to know our lives and our past support of them are no longer feeding that fire and have poured enough water on it to make up for the fuel we added in the past (eg, your SLC trib interview), but really, when you say things like:

>>Great Life Foundation (the "foundation",) was formed (I believe) in 2004 as a Utah State non-profit organization. Harmony Institute (which was the successor to Impact) ceased operations near the same time and referred its graduates to the foundation. <<<<

I have a hard time hearing ANY thing else you say as being truthful.

I wonder if you can see this? Get the impact of this?

I doubt you can. My "gut" says I only risk harming myself and what I believe in being a stand for here by reaching out to you in any way.

But like I said, I get we were once in the same Berger Box, and made it out of there alive, so I feel some connection to you.

Unfortunately how I feel about you, is probably not that dissimilar to how I imagine you must feel about your close friends who remain involved in TIT III.

It's like you're in another version of TIT III to me. Addicted to the high you feel around GLF, without seeing its FULL results in the world.

And part of that is so frustrating, so unable to communicate, so driven by how words are twisted in their meanings inside of those trainings.

So really tell me again this is true, tell me you really stand by these words (or not):

>>Great Life Foundation was formed (I believe) in 2004. . . Harmony Institute ceased operations near the same time and referred its graduates to the foundation. <<


I don't get how an "Institute" referrs anyone. Who from HI (employees, contractors, trainers, etc) did the "referring?"

And other than Mike Gardner, aren't ALL those HI humans working for or closely with GLF today?

If so that's like my physician changing last names when she got married and then saying Dr. Smith went out of business and referred me to Dr. Jones.

Truly, Boone, more than anyone else involved in these trainings right now, I pray for your soul, every day, and have asked many others to do the same for you.

You are in a position to do far more good, and be far more honest than what is than in what you have written here (the above being one of many examples).


Till then God Bless,

Impacted

Boone,

(Sorry for posting this twice. Was trying to edit. Guess I had just missed the 30 minute deadline . . .)


>>Incorrect. Great Life Foundation (the "foundation",) was formed (I believe) in 2004 as a Utah State non-profit organization. Harmony Institute (which was the successor to Impact) ceased operations near the same time and referred its graduates to the foundation. <<

I want to return to this statement of yours.

I believe it's key to understanding who you are (as a person) and for you, hopefully, to get the stand I am.

Now that some time has passed since you wrote this, I must ask, do you really stand by this as the truth?!?!

Would the people closest to you at GLF see this as truth?

Would the GLF board of directors see this as an honest representation of what happened in 2004?

Namely that "Harmony just before ceasing operations merely referred its graduates to Great Life."

That's a true statement to you?

Let's suppose you said that to someone not familiar with what actually happened.

Would they, based on what you have shared, know that:

1) The Great Life Foundation is in the same building as the Harmony Institute?

2) GLF inherited ALL of its furniture and office supplies from HI (Did HI "sell' that stuff to GLF?)?

3) Each and every one of the HI trainers became GLF trainers instantly?

4) The processes used by HI at the time it ceased and GLF began were IDENTICAL.

5) ______________________________ anything else you or others would want to share here?


Would your spiritual authorities, reading this exchange, hold you as having been honest in your dealings with your fellow man?

I have such mixed feelings about you, mostly negative, but mixed nonetheless.

I get you and I were burned in similar ways by the Bergers; I get you and I have many dear friends still recovering; I see you and I as being concerned about others being burned even today; I get you and I would like to know our lives and our past support of them are no longer feeding that fire and have poured enough water on it to make up for the fuel we added in the past (eg, your SLC trib interview), but really, when you say things like:

>>Great Life Foundation (the "foundation",) was formed (I believe) in 2004 as a Utah State non-profit organization. Harmony Institute (which was the successor to Impact) ceased operations near the same time and referred its graduates to the foundation. <<<<

I have a hard time hearing ANY thing else you say as being truthful.

I wonder if you can see this? Get the impact of this?

I doubt you can. My "gut" says I only risk harming myself and what I believe in being a stand for here by reaching out to you in any way.

But like I said, I get we were once in the same Berger Box, and made it out of there alive, so I feel some connection to you.

Unfortunately how I feel about you, is probably not that dissimilar to how I imagine you must feel about your close friends who remain involved in TIT III.

It's like you're in another version of TIT III to me. Addicted to the high you feel around GLF, without seeing its FULL results in the world.

And part of that is so frustrating, so unable to communicate, so driven by how words are twisted in their meanings inside of those trainings.

So really tell me again this is true, tell me you really stand by these words (or not):

>>Great Life Foundation was formed (I believe) in 2004. . . Harmony Institute ceased operations near the same time and referred its graduates to the foundation. <<


I don't get how an "Institute" referrs anyone. Who from HI (employees, contractors, trainers, etc) did the "referring?"

And other than Mike Gardner, aren't ALL those HI humans who "referred" others from HI to GLF still working for or closely with GLF today?

If so that's like my physician changing last names when she got married and then saying Dr. Smith went out of business and referred me to Dr. Jones.

Truly, Boone, more than anyone else involved in these trainings right now, I pray for your soul, every day, and have asked many others to do the same for you.

You are in a position to do far more good, and be far more honest with what is, than you are in what you have written here (the above being one of many examples).


Till then God Bless,

Impacted



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2007 06:31AM by Impacted.

I know the legal counsel employed by Great Life Foundation to register the Non profit organization. I can Both Boone and Ed could be correct on this. I suppose it is based more on how you want to see it. Great Life Foundation did start as a clean new company in 2004. Its management shifted from the Jubaks to working grad board. It is a non-profit organization in good standing with the state of Utah and the IRS. It did purchase assets from Harmony Institute (Chairs, Music, Equipment, furniture). It took over the Harmony building lease. It has made significant structural changes in management and even training format. It really is actively managed by a grad board that I'm told applies much more oversight to trainers, and business practices than was historically practiced. Having said all that, there was definitely a connection between Harmony Institute and Great Life. Grads did come together to form a company that negotiated what they felt like were reasonable business terms for purchasing assets from Harmony. This is a fairly common practice in business. Many business purchases are asset only purchases. Ed is also correct that there where many similarities in the actual training provided through The Great Life Foundation and Harmony Institute, especially early on in the history of the Great Life Foundation. I'm not sure why either Boone or Ed (Impacted) care so much about whether those two trainings are similar. On one hand, I see why Great Life would want to distance itself from Harmony Institute, and it's previous connection with Hans and Sally. The implications that Great Life Foundation wasn't or isn't a real or new organization aren't true. Any implications that Great Life Foundation had no connection to Harmony Institute would also be misleading, although I'm not sure that was what was said. In response to your other questions, here is what I understand.

"1) The Great Life Foundation is in the same building as the Harmony Institute? "
This is correct. The Great Life Foundation negotiated with and assumed the lease from "First Industrial", the landlord

"2) GLF inherited ALL of its furniture and office supplies from HI (Did HI "sell' that stuff to GLF?)?"
Actually GLF purchased the assets it wanted from the owners of HI. Purchase prices were negotiated and fair market value was paid.

"3) Each and every one of the HI trainers became GLF trainers instantly?"
On the surface, this statement is true although Great Life has been active in hiring, firing, and training it's own trainers from the onset of its existence. It has taken a much more active management role with it's trainers from the onset. Much of it's current training content has come from grad commitees.


4) The processes used by HI at the time it ceased and GLF began were IDENTICAL.
If you are referring to business processes and functions, this statement is completely untrue. If referring to training content, this would be true if you are referring only to the immediate time when GLF was starting and HI ceased to do business. The training processes began to change almost immediately based on grad and outside input, ideas and suggestions.

5) ______________________________ anything else you or others would want to share here?
Since you asked, GLF has since its inception spawned numerous other non profit groups, focusing on topics such as Child Safe Internet, Building Houses on the Indian Reservation, Villages in Cambodia, Providing Christmas for local families. It provides funding for these projects and support for organizers. Despite the sceptics, it really is a well run, well funded, non-profit. As you are probably aware, the application and review process for establishing and getting an approval for a non-profit is fairly rigourous and costly.

I'm also suprised by your criticism of GLF trainers and employees "pretending" to be grads, or business owners. By your own posts, you certainly see GLF as substantially "identical" to the Impact, HI, Lifespring model. Trainees often use there their different training experience as interchangable. The trainers in the videos all certainly consider themselves to be products or graduates of "The Training", and most have certainly incorporated aspects of the training and the GLF training in particular even if they experienced that particular training on staff, or as a trainer. I just don't see the big deception. Also, it wouldn't take much research to find out if GLF, or any other company for that matter is in good standing with the State, IRS, etc.

I've been reading the posts in these forums for the last several months without feeling the need to add to or comment on them. They often raise valid concerns. They just as often speculate and guess at issues that could easily be confirmed, and are often erroneous. I've found it tremendously educational reading these posts. The fanatisism on both sides is interesting. Thank you, for you insights and posts Impacted, even if perhaps it sounds like I'm antagonistic toward your posts. I'm assuming you want accurate inside information when available rather than the speculation. I'm not to the point of condemning LGAT's as having no purpose in society. At the same time, I'm very much in favor or people being more educated, and having more screening and preparation of those who decide to attend. I loved the comments posted by the Moderator as a groundwork for discussion about LGAT's.

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formerimpactgrad

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boonetahoe
I'm comfortable with my own level of research into psychology and heuristics (and the education/study I've conducted) and I'm comfortable with the level of psychological oversight into the LGAT with which I'm associated.

I rather doubt that a debate with you regarding my study or qualifications will yield much in the way of mutual enlightenment (regardless of how thorough my studies have been.) And, that's why I'm not addressing your assertions tit-for-tat. If I gave you an impressive bibliography of the books and studies I've read, would you then be open to the possibility that you may be off-base in generally rejecting the LGAT model?

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boonetahoe
Unfortunately, I can't go into the data, method, etc. without exposing my identity (and I'd rather not do that given the topic, ie. Impact.) Let's just say that my approach was considerably more scientific and with a much larger base of respondants than yours.

I thought I would move these posts of yours over to this forum and quote a pm that you sent me...

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boonetahoe
"You claim to have gathered evidence but you have made no effort to disclose any of it." If I tell you how I gathered "evidence" (which I have never claimed is strictly "hard evidence" but that is substantial, anectdotal evidence,) it will absolutely expose my identity. I would rather not do that because of Hans and Sally's vindictive nature and some of the things I've said have been very negative toward them. You have shown no willingness to protect my identity, so I'm certainly not going to discuss it with you. So, I promise that (unless you've spoken to hundreds of LGAT graduates a year or more after they completed the training,) you have less formal and less complete information on this matter than do I. Of course, you're not going to want to believe that, so I'm wasting my breath.

Two things are funny about your pm. The first was that obviously you had claimed to have gained "hard evidence" but you tried to retract your statement when pressed. The second was that when you wrote this message, I had known your identity for some time but had not "outed you" on the thread.

Boone,

Is there any reason why you think you should have ANY credibility when posting in this forum? You have been consistently dishonest and deceptive...

>>I'm also suprised by your criticism of GLF trainers and employees "pretending" to be grads<<

They are also, at least some of them, pretending to be CEOs of other companies, in Kim Ashton's case, two different "paper" companies. And while I was wrong, and Analee's company does exist, she lists herself as CEO. Anyone want to bet whether she is the ONLY employee of that company for which she is CEO?

While inside the training room holding participants to a level of integrity where that kind of "mask" would result in . . . what?

Do you really not see this hypocracy?

Can you really not see how those outside your company (cult) could not see it that way? Are you that "blinded by the light?"

I think you are.

So, let's suppose you are seeking a financial advisor. You watch a video where several people tell you how wonderful this financial advisor is. They list their credentials as being with this company or that company and you decide to sign up.

Then when you walk in the door, you find out the people in the video ARE the financial advisors.

Would you trust them?

Would you feel lied to?


Oh, and all the things they said about the great profits they personally received from this company, they actually got across town with another financial advisor, guy named Hans, who is no longer with them.

Oh, and what they are really training is not financial profit, but how to create a "working world" with "unconditionally loving relationships."

And what they have done is go to war with the other company. Called the police on them. Sued them. Been sued by them. Slander each other constantly. Call each other cults . . . .

(Now they might be right about most of that -- but isn't it just a tiny, little, bit inconsistent with the "enlightenment" they each claim they are "uniquely" qualified to bring into the world?)

Don't you think?

--------Ed

skibum,

>>In response to your other questions, here is what I understand. . . .<<

Thanks for the response. You've proved my point.

The process you described is what happened. The description that:

The Harmony Institute closed and then merely "referred" its grads to the Great Life Foundation was dishonest.

Same building. Same landlord. Same assets. Same chairs. Same trainers. Same employees. Same processes. Same Red/Black boards. Same CDs. Same pertty pictures on the walls. Same janitor. Same phone number. Same Lift-off numbers. . . . Same just about everything.

Sure some things have changed since then, Mike Gardner is out (hum, but I thought he quit -- hardly the board of directors making changes in trainers . . . ), Brett Harward is in (and, like you, reading everything here apparently).

It is just so hard to have a conversation with the level of dishonesty present in some of the postings here.

-----Ed