Looking for Sterling Wives...
Posted by:
righttofight
()
Date: March 27, 2003 04:33AM
Hi Jennie,
I read with sadness about your experience.
It is true.
These LGATs will ruin relationships.
My girlfriend and I spent a loving and close Christmas together. We talked about marriage. Spent it with the kids.
10 days later after she volunteered for her ex-boyfriend's retreat weekend - she wanted to be just friends.
20 days after that - we were finished.
The language and the reaction points are strange. They become brittle and easily critical using their own defensive language to wall in their reality.
I was in pain, denial, shock. Anger. I do not wish it anyone.
You need therapy. Counseling. He's a different person now. It's like someone dying.
I read with sadness about your experience.
It is true.
These LGATs will ruin relationships.
My girlfriend and I spent a loving and close Christmas together. We talked about marriage. Spent it with the kids.
10 days later after she volunteered for her ex-boyfriend's retreat weekend - she wanted to be just friends.
20 days after that - we were finished.
The language and the reaction points are strange. They become brittle and easily critical using their own defensive language to wall in their reality.
I was in pain, denial, shock. Anger. I do not wish it anyone.
You need therapy. Counseling. He's a different person now. It's like someone dying.
Looking for Sterling Wives...
Posted by:
Hope
()
Date: April 29, 2003 12:16PM
Someone on another forum is looking for info on Sterling Wives, so I'm bumping this thread up.
Looking for Sterling Wives...
Posted by:
elizabeth
()
Date: May 07, 2003 02:15AM
Hi Jennie,
Could you tell me more about your experience with your husband and Landmark? My husband just did the first three-day course and is now currently taking the additional "free" 10-night sessions. He has made it quite clear that he is signing up for the advanced course even though I have strongly objected. I have spent dozens of hours reading everything I can on Landmark and do not like what I see. I have tried to have an objective converstation with him about my concerns but obviously he is so deep into it that I am the one who doesn't "get it".
I don't know what to do. We were having marital problems before but now that I have refused to go with him to a session he keeps talking that it's me against him (them). I have a bad feeling that this will be what will cause us to separate and I simply do not know what to do.
I keep going back and forth thinking it is simply me who is not giving him the benefit of the doubt (though he tells me that since I don't trust Landmark, I, therefore, no longer trust him). Is it me? Will he benefit from this? Can our marriage survive?
Can anyone share some ideas with me on how to approach him? I am desparate.
Elizabeth
Jennie wrote: He became involved in a group called "landmark Education," because he was feeling suicidal & very depressed. Instantly his parents, my parents, his sister & family, my sister & family, & many other friends became concerned about this group. My parents warned me that the group was not safe & that if Paul became deeply involved with it, he would leave me within the next six months. Of couse I thought they were all full of it, but I still told Paul about everyone's concern. Well, here I am, moving out on my own, selling him my half of our home we bought together, completely in shock.
Could you tell me more about your experience with your husband and Landmark? My husband just did the first three-day course and is now currently taking the additional "free" 10-night sessions. He has made it quite clear that he is signing up for the advanced course even though I have strongly objected. I have spent dozens of hours reading everything I can on Landmark and do not like what I see. I have tried to have an objective converstation with him about my concerns but obviously he is so deep into it that I am the one who doesn't "get it".
I don't know what to do. We were having marital problems before but now that I have refused to go with him to a session he keeps talking that it's me against him (them). I have a bad feeling that this will be what will cause us to separate and I simply do not know what to do.
I keep going back and forth thinking it is simply me who is not giving him the benefit of the doubt (though he tells me that since I don't trust Landmark, I, therefore, no longer trust him). Is it me? Will he benefit from this? Can our marriage survive?
Can anyone share some ideas with me on how to approach him? I am desparate.
Elizabeth
Jennie wrote: He became involved in a group called "landmark Education," because he was feeling suicidal & very depressed. Instantly his parents, my parents, his sister & family, my sister & family, & many other friends became concerned about this group. My parents warned me that the group was not safe & that if Paul became deeply involved with it, he would leave me within the next six months. Of couse I thought they were all full of it, but I still told Paul about everyone's concern. Well, here I am, moving out on my own, selling him my half of our home we bought together, completely in shock.
Looking for Sterling Wives...
Posted by:
express
()
Date: May 08, 2003 03:20AM
elizabeth--
You husband should not be pressuring you to attend a guest event. If you do not want to go tell him that you choose not to go.
I have people in my life who will not attend guest events and have no interest in Landmark. I am responsible for thier wishes. Please note that their wishes do not in any way impact my relationship for them. I accept thier choice. Request that your husband accept you for who you are and who you are not.
You husband should not be pressuring you to attend a guest event. If you do not want to go tell him that you choose not to go.
I have people in my life who will not attend guest events and have no interest in Landmark. I am responsible for thier wishes. Please note that their wishes do not in any way impact my relationship for them. I accept thier choice. Request that your husband accept you for who you are and who you are not.
Looking for Sterling Wives...
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: May 08, 2003 05:16AM
Elizabeth--
You may also want to share information with your husband easily accessible through the Internet.
Landmark has a deeply troubled history of lawsuits, out of court settlements, bad press and constant complaints.
This is well documented.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Obviously there are many other options for self-improvement offered through college courses, nonprofit community programs and licensed facilities.
You may want to encourage your husband to consider this.
And with all the research available about mass marathon training and its historical problems, there is no good reason to take a risk.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Don't allow him or others to say it's your problem, or your not the right person etc., which ignores the obvious facts about Landmark.
IMO--No one is really "right" for Landmark.
And you don't have to smoke cigarettes, chew tobacco or drive drunk to know it's a bad idea.
Again, available research precludes the need to "experience it" and risk your well-being.
Hope this is helpful.
You may also want to share information with your husband easily accessible through the Internet.
Landmark has a deeply troubled history of lawsuits, out of court settlements, bad press and constant complaints.
This is well documented.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Obviously there are many other options for self-improvement offered through college courses, nonprofit community programs and licensed facilities.
You may want to encourage your husband to consider this.
And with all the research available about mass marathon training and its historical problems, there is no good reason to take a risk.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Don't allow him or others to say it's your problem, or your not the right person etc., which ignores the obvious facts about Landmark.
IMO--No one is really "right" for Landmark.
And you don't have to smoke cigarettes, chew tobacco or drive drunk to know it's a bad idea.
Again, available research precludes the need to "experience it" and risk your well-being.
Hope this is helpful.
Looking for Sterling Wives...
Posted by:
patrick-darcy
()
Date: May 08, 2003 05:28AM
Quote
express
elizabeth--
You husband should not be pressuring you to attend a guest event. If you do not want to go tell him that you choose not to go.
the reality of landmark grads is that most
do pressure people to go. landmark of course
tells them not to but of course they do.
why do they pressure people to attend.
1. they feel better now after being
indoctrination with no right or wrong.
2. group hypnosis is very very effective.
3. most people will get a sort of high
when they are first out of their forum.
and there are other reasons.
I have people in my life who will not attend guest events and have no interest in Landmark. I am responsible for thier wishes.
do u work for landmark ? or do u volunteer
or are u training for landmark ?
Please note that their wishes do not in any way impact my relationship for them. I accept thier choice. Request that your husband accept you for who you are and who you are not.
can u discuss the fact that so many people
do not respect others wishes.
can u address the fact that there are many
relationships that are destroyed by
attendance at landmark.
i have talked about and read that in some
companies, especially in california that if
u dont attend a forum they wont hire u.
they dont come out and actually say this
but its understood.
Looking for Sterling Wives...
Posted by:
patrick-darcy
()
Date: May 08, 2003 05:37AM
Quote
rrmoderator
Thank you for acknowledging that MDI "Men's Division International" is a group that provides "suport" for the weekend.
MDI clearly is a "tool" used for recruitment and promotion by Justin Sterling for his weekend.
Sterling typically grosses about ,000.00 for a working "weekend." This income has made him a multi-millionaire.
landmark makes many tens of thousands
on each forum event also.
Also, despite your apology, telling men to strip naked and videotaping them at a "relationship seminar" is neither like a "locker room," nor does it seem very "spiritual."
maybe someone could remind me the name
of the training group that was shut down
because they were stripping people naked
and shutting them up in coffins and putting
them on crosses and screaming and hitting
them. i cant think of the name of the group
but i do remember that werner the starter
of est now landmark attended this group.
Instead, it is unseemly and potentially embarassing.
Men should be told in advance what to expect at these weekends, so they can make an informed decision if they wish to attend or not.
Regarding your other comments, they are a fairly typical apology made by Sterling devotees.
Those interested should read the comments of others not devoted to Sterling and the bad press the group has garnered.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Obviously there are less controversial and more credible alternatives to resolve marriage problems than Sterling.
Men might consult resources within their community such as licensed and credentialed counselors, clergy or psychologists who are accountable to a licensing board, agency and/or body/church.
Thankfully, groups like Sterling, which have been repeatedly discredited, are not the only source for solutions to personal problems or self-improvement.
Looking for Sterling Wives...
Posted by:
elizabeth
()
Date: May 08, 2003 10:48PM
Thanks all who responded.
Not a day goes by that I do not have to deal with Landmark. This is another aspect that is not often considered. I do not want to attend. I have no interest in attending and I am deeply concerned with my husband's involvement. Therefore, I have to spend as much time as possible trying to understand why he was so "coachable." I can't just tell him "I don't like it so get out". I have to research and talk to people and get as much information as possible just to be able to have a conversation about it with him.
Even though it was not my intention, we ended up having a three-hour conversation about it last night. Express, I'm sorry, maybe you are the exception to the rule, but my husband is not respecting the fact that I do not want to attend. And he is not respecting the fact that I have approached two of the people he has tried to "recruit" (even though he "gave me his word" that he would leave our family and friends alone) to tell them to get information first and then make up their minds. He accused me of interfering.
Our conversation started calm and respectful. By the end, he was accusing me of over-reacting and of being disrespectful to him. I have just taken out the book "Cults in our Midst" and pointed out that Landmark is mentioned in this book and that the author explains their tactics and agenda in great detail. His response - "it's one book, who cares". I have spent the last six weeks reading everything I can find - positive and negative - on the Internet and have tried to share some of this with him. His response - "of course there is more negative, it's human nature to speak out when you don't like something. Guaranteed there is more people who have positive things to say but they won't bother putting up a web page about it".
My husband is an intelligent man who has always pointed out negatives in things before he can talk about the positives. He is known to be a little too cynical and he has always flaunted his independence. Yet, he has embraced Landmark without even blinking. There is something wrong with this picture.
The one thing I cherish in my life is my right to critical thinking. All human beings should have the right to research anything they want before they make a decision. Yet here is my husband telling me that I have no right to tell our friends and family that there is more to Landmark than his side of it. I am not to tell them about my concerns but yet they should trust him when he says it will be good for them. There is something wrong with this picture.
His sister, who at first said she would attend a session with him even though she had reservations, has now she said she would not. His reaction - who did you talk to? Did you talk to my wife? I'm your brother and you should trust me, not her. There is something wrong with this picture.
My cousin, who recruited my husband, is the same way. She refuses to even consider reading about the lawsuits and the controversy (for lack of a better word). She does not have access to the Internet and even though I have told her that maybe she should look at the whole picture, she says that without Landmark her life would be pointless. She has left her apartment, friends and family and spent over $30,000 (all of her savings and retirement money) to buy a business in a different country because she is creating her new possibility. The business is in a tourist town and since she bought it in low-season, she has not been able to make enough money to pay her bills. She refused to use a lawyer or accountant to close the deal. She has no business, marketing or accounting experience, yet she believes she can create this possibility on her own. There is something wrong with this picture.
This picture is Landmark and what it has done and is doing to those closest to me. Express, you may have been able to take their philisophy and create a new life for yourself where you say you respect your friends and family. I believe the majority of Landmark "graduates" cannot. That is what is wrong with Landmark.
Right now my husband is creating the possibility of divorce. Our eight-year old daughter does not deserve this.
Elizabeth
Not a day goes by that I do not have to deal with Landmark. This is another aspect that is not often considered. I do not want to attend. I have no interest in attending and I am deeply concerned with my husband's involvement. Therefore, I have to spend as much time as possible trying to understand why he was so "coachable." I can't just tell him "I don't like it so get out". I have to research and talk to people and get as much information as possible just to be able to have a conversation about it with him.
Even though it was not my intention, we ended up having a three-hour conversation about it last night. Express, I'm sorry, maybe you are the exception to the rule, but my husband is not respecting the fact that I do not want to attend. And he is not respecting the fact that I have approached two of the people he has tried to "recruit" (even though he "gave me his word" that he would leave our family and friends alone) to tell them to get information first and then make up their minds. He accused me of interfering.
Our conversation started calm and respectful. By the end, he was accusing me of over-reacting and of being disrespectful to him. I have just taken out the book "Cults in our Midst" and pointed out that Landmark is mentioned in this book and that the author explains their tactics and agenda in great detail. His response - "it's one book, who cares". I have spent the last six weeks reading everything I can find - positive and negative - on the Internet and have tried to share some of this with him. His response - "of course there is more negative, it's human nature to speak out when you don't like something. Guaranteed there is more people who have positive things to say but they won't bother putting up a web page about it".
My husband is an intelligent man who has always pointed out negatives in things before he can talk about the positives. He is known to be a little too cynical and he has always flaunted his independence. Yet, he has embraced Landmark without even blinking. There is something wrong with this picture.
The one thing I cherish in my life is my right to critical thinking. All human beings should have the right to research anything they want before they make a decision. Yet here is my husband telling me that I have no right to tell our friends and family that there is more to Landmark than his side of it. I am not to tell them about my concerns but yet they should trust him when he says it will be good for them. There is something wrong with this picture.
His sister, who at first said she would attend a session with him even though she had reservations, has now she said she would not. His reaction - who did you talk to? Did you talk to my wife? I'm your brother and you should trust me, not her. There is something wrong with this picture.
My cousin, who recruited my husband, is the same way. She refuses to even consider reading about the lawsuits and the controversy (for lack of a better word). She does not have access to the Internet and even though I have told her that maybe she should look at the whole picture, she says that without Landmark her life would be pointless. She has left her apartment, friends and family and spent over $30,000 (all of her savings and retirement money) to buy a business in a different country because she is creating her new possibility. The business is in a tourist town and since she bought it in low-season, she has not been able to make enough money to pay her bills. She refused to use a lawyer or accountant to close the deal. She has no business, marketing or accounting experience, yet she believes she can create this possibility on her own. There is something wrong with this picture.
This picture is Landmark and what it has done and is doing to those closest to me. Express, you may have been able to take their philisophy and create a new life for yourself where you say you respect your friends and family. I believe the majority of Landmark "graduates" cannot. That is what is wrong with Landmark.
Right now my husband is creating the possibility of divorce. Our eight-year old daughter does not deserve this.
Elizabeth
Quote
[i:8d111ec2d3]Originally posted by patrick-darcy [/i:8d111ec2d3]
can u discuss the fact that so many people
do not respect others wishes.
can u address the fact that there are many
relationships that are destroyed by
attendance at landmark.
Looking for Sterling Wives...
Posted by:
express
()
Date: May 08, 2003 10:52PM
No I do not work for Landmark. I am in the ILP at the moment.
Looking for Sterling Wives...
Posted by:
express
()
Date: May 09, 2003 05:29AM
can u discuss the fact that so many people
do not respect others wishes.
I addressed this earlier but I don't see my post. So here it goes again. I'll try to be breif and clear. Most people do not respect others wishes because the get very tied up in the idea of having someone register into the forum--forgeting that the WHOLE reason they invited their guest is so they could have a closer relationship. In turn they do damaging things to that relationship. I went to the Landmark Forum because I felt disconected from people so it'd be absurd for me to alienate them because they say something negetive about it. That's just who they are about it. In my missing post I disected the responsibity of Landmark in this and of the guest--both parties are to blame. I also think it is a problem with recent graduates because they are 1) Very enthusiastic and 2) they don't "get it" when it comes to choice. I never invited guests to my forum, my seminar, or my advance course. I never felt "made wrong" because I was comfortable in not having guests. I could spend a lot longer talking about guests but I hope that answers your question somewhat.
can u address the fact that there are many
relationships that are destroyed by
attendance at landmark.
I don't know. I don't really know of any first hand. I know that my attendance gave me unimaginable relationships with my parents (who haven't done the forum),my sister, and my boss. I can only speak about what I know though.
do not respect others wishes.
I addressed this earlier but I don't see my post. So here it goes again. I'll try to be breif and clear. Most people do not respect others wishes because the get very tied up in the idea of having someone register into the forum--forgeting that the WHOLE reason they invited their guest is so they could have a closer relationship. In turn they do damaging things to that relationship. I went to the Landmark Forum because I felt disconected from people so it'd be absurd for me to alienate them because they say something negetive about it. That's just who they are about it. In my missing post I disected the responsibity of Landmark in this and of the guest--both parties are to blame. I also think it is a problem with recent graduates because they are 1) Very enthusiastic and 2) they don't "get it" when it comes to choice. I never invited guests to my forum, my seminar, or my advance course. I never felt "made wrong" because I was comfortable in not having guests. I could spend a lot longer talking about guests but I hope that answers your question somewhat.
can u address the fact that there are many
relationships that are destroyed by
attendance at landmark.
I don't know. I don't really know of any first hand. I know that my attendance gave me unimaginable relationships with my parents (who haven't done the forum),my sister, and my boss. I can only speak about what I know though.
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