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maurice
So your subjectuve reality is split in two - your real self, abused and humiliated constantly, and your new cult self, the drone, the robot. This two identities fight against each other. The feedback from the real world helps your real self to come back on the surface. That creates a clash with your cult self. Unfortunately the clash is seen a proof that something is wrong when the real self comes back, so the cult self is reinforced that way. In landmark, your real self is called 'act' and your cult self are 'possibility'. When the brainwash start to wear off, your 'act resurface'. That's stressful. Stress is a proof that your pre-cult self is good for nothing but pain, so you automatically start the thought stopping execises and 'recreate your possibility again'. I don't know if I've been clear enough. Basically the 'technologies' are constructed to be self-proved by the very problems they cause. When the brainwashing starts to fade, adjustment is very uncomfortable. Until you realise that the discomfort it's not the disease, but the healing, you tend to be back for more brainwashing.

Thank you. That makes sense to me, in a convoluted sort of way.

So, if I' m understanding correctly it goes something like this:

1. Most people have some part of their lives they would like to improve. This may include some underlying beliefs which may not help us.

2. This part of being human is then exploited with manipulative techniques to denigrate the self. One then views one's self not simply as an imperfect, but basically good human being trying to improve, but rather as "permanently doomed" and a "useless piece of sh*t".

3. They manipulators then give you a way to escape being such a pathetic excuse for a human being. That way is a belief system that always works if you do it right. When it doesn't work, it's your fault. This is now easy to believe you are the problem because your old self was such a chump anyway.

4. Now when there is dissonance between the observations, thoughts and feelings of the real self and the programming of the cult self, because the cult self thinks the real self is such a loser, at least for a while, the perceptions of the real self are discounted because the old self was the problem in the first place.

All these groups have their own vocabulary. In the case of my loved one, The Release Technique said that he was like a computer with a computer virus and they could remove the virus. They taught him that the ego and the mind are the source of his problems. Once you let go of your "resistence" the group will remove the virus and you will be coming from your "beingness" (I noticed rswinters used that word.) Beingness must be the purest form of the cult self because it sounds just like a Release Technique tape.

I am now reecalling that about 6 weeks after my husband went to the mass marathon training when the high was wearing off a bit, here comes a mailer from The Release Technique saying that the "ego is tricky." It will tell you that releasing isn't working when it is. So I think the programmers are aware of the clash of real self and cult self so they must reiterate that the real self is actually the evil ego trying to trip you up again by deceiving you into questioning whether releasing is working.

This is truly evil. Truly a crime against people's souls.

I commend you all for coming through it and sharing your stories. This has really helped further my understanding.

I really miss who my husband was. I miss the inventive, original things he used to say. I miss having him just express some caring and listening when I was troubled, instead of bomboarding me some nonsensical solution from his program. Maybe he thinks I'm some kind of an idiot for missing that guy.

Question lady, that last post of yours should be put somewhere permanently; under one of the other sections of this site like Mind Control or somewhere.

You summed it up perfectly, and even brought up some points of which I was unaware until this point, mainly that the "old" you was such a "chump" anyway that any logical breakthrough from that self can easily be discounted. I think maurice also said something about that as well, the split between the two selves.

Always learning something new! The more these things make sense to me, the better I feel.

This site and forum are the jewel of the Internet.

Good luck with your husband and your situation with him. While it was a pain being in a cult, it must be infinitely difficult being a loved one on the "outside". I can only imagine. You have no level of certainty if this man you love will ever get away from these beliefs.

That Release Technique sounds pernicious, following up the workshops with warnings about "the ego". A terrible group!

My thoughts are with you.

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Jack Oskar Larm
I say, don't give up on yourself just because you're surrounded by people with sinister agendas. Help where you can; be patient for as long as you can; but don't give yourself up! :)

Its the last bit that can be the easiest to disregard.

Then it's about self-esteem. There has to be better ways to bolster one's self-esteem than to blindly follow a LGAT or another crazy doctrine! My advice is get a hobby. For me, it's my obsession with self-expression and my unwavering curiosity.

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Jack Oskar Larm
Then it's about self-esteem. There has to be better ways to bolster one's self-esteem than to blindly follow a LGAT or another crazy doctrine! My advice is get a hobby. For me, it's my obsession with self-expression and my unwavering curiosity.

I obsess with logic puzzles and arguments. Philosophy, human behavior, physical science, reading/writing and the performing arts. I always have, since I was in Grade School. I find it simultaneously relaxing and invigorating. I'm a humanities junkie and a scientist, always looking for the next puzzle, and the next. I blindly followed my LGAT because self-esteem was a concept that was totally alien and foreign to me, and Hans Berger promised me it while always holding it out of reach. I had no frame of reference for it until recently. Confidence makes all of my obsessions so much more...enjoyable and gratifying as opposed to frustrating when I would hit another “dead end”. I don’t seek with desperation any longer, but only out of [i:4cd095432b]pure[/i:4cd095432b] curiosity.

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Rswinters
Thats why they enourage you to be as much emotionally involved as you can be.

The more emotionally involved you are in seminars. The more your core belief systems are confronted and exchanged out with companies in a seminar.

I found a scholarly article which I think is relevant to the persistence of the LGAT belief system even when confronted with evidence which would invalidate it. This may be why emotional involvement is so important in the manipulation.

The study showed how the emotions (affect) associated with a belief persisted even when the information was later shown to be false.

[www.psych.ucsb.edu]

Thank you Question lady, this is an interesting article.

I think the techniques they use are holistic - they do a combination of mental, emotional and physical conditioning all at the same time.
They present the concept or idea they want you to accept (with specific keywords) which you would not normally accept from a rational perspective.

While they are presenting the idea they say and do other things to produce a positive emotion (ranging from pleasant to euphoric).

The emotion causes a biological, physical reaction in your body and they reinforce that with other physical things like breathing techniques, changing body posture, movement (e.g. dancing) or hugging.

The physical and emotional pleasure over-rides the rational and the idea is accepted.

They do the same in reverse with ideas and concepts they want you to get rid of - for example, the idea that reason and logic are valuable. These ideas are presented with something that causes an unpleasant emotion and unpleasant body response, as well as unpleasant response from the other group members.

After you've been through this process your body, mind and emotions have new pathways and connections that are all tied together, so that when one of the trigger words or concepts is heard outside of the course, it sets off an emotional and physiological reaction, which once again undermines reason. Or if you breathe in the way you've been taught, then that triggers the associated emotions and thoughts; if you have the same feeling that triggers the breathing or posture and the thought. Its all tied up together.

To answer your original question: I didn't see any good results at all in my own life, only in other people's lives. I don't know whether those results were real or not. But I do know that when you are with the group or in a training, negativity and criticism are seen as a weakness or a failure to use or apply the training correctly, so most people will only talk about how wonderful their lives are working and how great the training is.

So the main way I deluded myself was by seeing other people looking as if it was all working very well for them, then concluding that there must be something wrong with me, not the training.

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SaneAgain
I didn't see any good results at all in my own life, only in other people's lives...

negativity and criticism are seen as a weakness or a failure to use or apply the training correctly, so most people will only talk about how wonderful their lives are working and how great the training is.

So the main way I deluded myself was by seeing other people looking as if it was all working very well for them, then concluding that there must be something wrong with me, not the training.

I experienced the same thing on my end. I actually think this is felt by many LGAT participants. Yet for the sake of remaining positive, and not calling it what it is.

Most participants refuse to identify the LGAT philosphy as being the culprit of why its not working.

I used to have a friend that keeps going to the seminars by staffing them as a volunteer as he has been for a couple of years now believing that he can rub that magical LGAT lamp the right way to produce this elusive financial abundance he keeps dreaming about creating.

I shared a snap shot about him already on one of my past posts. He is the one married with a couple of kids. Look it up and read it. I went into more detail on that post about the situation.

This guy has bought hook line and sinker into this chasing his tail mindset from trying to arrive at the destination of being positive enough, or whatever enough to open that magical door in his life.

I have much more opinion about this guys delusion. Let me leave it at that though. This guy has been so enmeshed in this philosphy, and mindset that is has transformed into a delusion for him.

One day hopefully. He will wake up to the reality of what is, and face the lies that he has destroyed his life, and his family lives with.

Until then, at least he is positive about the financial disaster that is in his, and his family lives as a direct result of this pot of gold at the end of the rainbow philosphy.

Thank God, I only bought into it for 2 years, and poured 20 thousand down the rabbit hole in my life.

THANK GOD!