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Big question....
Posted by: Glen ()
Date: January 03, 2004 09:39PM

Hi guys

Been lurking on this forum for many mornths learning, as well as searching scientogoloy websites (official and anti) and likewise for the forum.

I know all about the history of each "religion" and the ENORMOUS amount of damage they can do to individuals.

Knowing all of this, and knowing I have a 142 IQ, and can outwit and out debate any of these "therapists" yet still having a fascination with mind control and the techniques employed (much like cosmo), then, the question is:


I desperately want to probe their minds, find their weaknesses then use logic and commonsense to make them look like fools...

As anyone done it? Was it fun?!! I really want to get inside the mindset of a cult leader and their lemminglike drones...


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Big question....
Posted by: dutch ()
Date: January 04, 2004 12:30AM

Hey Glen,

As much as I like the idea of you sabotaging a Landmark Forum, I'd still advise you to stay home and save your time and money.

The thing is, if a forum leader figures out what you're up to, most likely he or she will simply stop the proceedings. Literally. They are trained to not let anyone, under any circumstances, undermine their authority during a forum. They will try to humiliate you in front of the group, then ask you to leave. If they have to, a leader will not continue the training until you are physically gone from the room.

We had a case at the center I was involved in where a participant said this to a forum leader, "c'mon give the guy a f****** break?" The FL took offense to the language and proceeded to stare at the guy for many minutes, refusing to go on until the swearing man apologized. He was eventually kicked out of the forum.

Put your 142 IQ to good use and be smart enough not to attend an LGAT. If you want to test your wit, try something useful like helping kids to read. Don't waste your brains on these 'guru' bozos.


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Big question....
Posted by: kico ()
Date: January 04, 2004 03:14AM

Hi guys .........
As anyone done it? Was it fun?!! I really want to get inside the mindset of a cult leader and their lemminglike drones...



I think your fascination with cults is a warning sign that you are capable of being seduced and recruited, despite your IQ and knowledge of cultic behaviour.

If you debate with a Forum Leader or Co$ teacher or equivalent ‘guru’ you risk not just the humiliation and early bath which Dutch warns you of, but also you risk being converted by the extra special attention and hypnotic tech they will use on you. So if you are the sort of person who likes attention and wants the limelight, beware, this is exactly the personality profile they are looking for.

If you just sit quietly, keep your mouth shut and observe their techniques for your own research that is different, you could write a good inside exposure of cults afterwards to help promote public awareness. But you’ll have to discipline yourself to bite your tongue when you’ll be screaming inside to have a debating match with the leader/teacher/guru.

Better still if you want to help fight cults start a pressure group, work for a mental health charity, or become a mental health professional and help treat people in recovery.

I attended a Co$ training for research purposes only and I had to leave after the first course to protect myself from harm, they were seriously spooky and scary people and I feared for my well-being. I was not harmed but I was shaken up for a couple of months. One negative consequence is that they still write to me every week (this is years later) because they have no exit procedure, once you sign up for a course you are a life member as far as they are concerned. Landmark gave up phoning me after a year or two.


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Big question....
Posted by: jimmy247 ()
Date: January 04, 2004 05:14AM

Glen What worries me is that ,at least,some if not most of the people who get sucked into cults and are taken for a ride , also have a high IQ. Cult leaders are great liars but theres more to them, not a job for one man on his own. If it was, I would have managed to get my Brother away from the clutches of Tony Quinn by now, we're brainy blokes.

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Big question....
Posted by: Hope ()
Date: January 04, 2004 06:45AM

Referring to what Jimmy has written, people who get sucked in are not the lemming-like droves. That's pretty much been disregarded as fallacy by now. Also, many of the cult leaders, false gurus, etc. meet the criteria for being sociopathic or, at the very least narcissistic. These types fool mental health and legal professionals with their charm, manipulation and lies.

Finally, there is no need to ask anyone here if you should get involved with a cultish figure. Do your own research and figure the rest out yourself.

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Big question....
Posted by: Cosmophilospher ()
Date: January 04, 2004 06:58AM

Many years ago, i actually did "infiltrate" a number of cults, merely out of personal interest. I am a professional actor, so i am fascinated by wacked out people. I personally have an intense curiousity in wacko people doing wacked out things. I have used this info in my work many times!

I have also read many many books on cults, propaganda, etc. Frankly, if i was an evil sociopath, i could probably start my own cult! But i have a conscience, and empathy, and care about people.

Anyway, years ago i "infiltrated" TM, Scientology, Sai Baba, Christian Science, Christ Consciousness New Age culty things, the Quartus Group, Unity Church, and a number of wacky Eastern Yoga Gurus, the names i forget at this moment, and a bunch of other cults of various stripes.
What i did was pretend i was on a "spiritual quest" and i acted really sincere and simple minded, and then also let them know that my wealthy Aunt was going to "support" my journey. (this is when they would start to salivate!). ;)
I would work my way up the organization, without spending any money, by making endless promises, and excuses, and telling them my Aunt needed more info, etc. Of course i could only go so far.

This was before the internet, and i didn't know anything about Cults, other than they were BS Artists. It all started when i walked in and did the Scientology personality test for a lark, and that is a massive story in itself. I was in there for over 6 hours, meeting various people, and when i decided to leave, he tried to block the door, so i gave him 5 seconds to move, and he did.
I could write a little book about my adventures.
Even 2 months ago, i walked into the main Scientology center in my city, as Hubbard was on the video, and watched that sociopathic nutcase ramble on for a couple of hours.


The worst thing is to be overconfident, and feel "superior" to the cultists. We all have our weaknesses, and can get nailed. I got tricked by Tony Robbins, and that whole scene, so we can all get duped.
For me though, these other cults are so blatantly obvious, that it doesn't seem to affect me. Also, i am 6'2" and grew up in a rough neighborhood, so they cannot intimdate me.

What i am saying is this.
If you can, use your powers for good.
Perhaps learn about cults and mind control, and then give free lectures to students, etc.

But i hear where you are coming from.
I am tempted to go to a Landmark meeting in 2 weeks, and spoil the entire meeting, by talking about all of the lies in Landmark, and what their techniques are, etc. I could very easily ruin their entire evening, without raising my voice. And the Landmark people behave so obnoxiously, in my view they deserve it. I could cost them a lot of money.

But is this the best way to combat cults?
Not really.
In my view, the internet is a scourge to many cults. Now all their tricks are exposed openly, and thousands can read about them.

Getting into cults can be a slippery slope. Even if a person is intelligent, they can be duped. And don't forget, some cults are very litigious, and can create real trouble for you.
But i do understand the fascination with cults, and the desire to expose them.
Mind Control is an incredibly slippery slope, and a high IQ can actually be detrimental.



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Big question....
Posted by: Hope ()
Date: January 04, 2004 08:56AM


Yes - the internet now is a great tool to expose cults, and to a certain extent, false gurus (tho like you said, beware of the their legal departments). This was not available even a short time ago. Most people did not and do not enter into cults knowingly, or relationships that are cult-like. The eastern cults with their yoga practice and healthful ways seems attractive to many people yet today. Now we're learning thanks to world wide web.

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Big question....
Posted by: patrick-darcy ()
Date: January 06, 2004 12:04PM

u may think u are very smart but
mind control techniques have nabbed
some of the best. somoene was
posting the other day over at and they mentioned that some of the major players from
isral and palestine negotiating
a peace was a landmark event.

its not how smart u are,its how good
they are at mind control techniques.

i would guess would u would come
out of the forum ranting how because
u are so smart and all that it is not
a cult.

most people do this.

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Big question....
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: January 08, 2004 05:34AM

A high IQ is like a powerful, state of the art computer. It is only as useful as the programs that have been downloaded into it.

Your intellect can be co-opted and used against you. A guy at an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting told us, 'I thought I couldnt become addicted because I was so smart.

'I did not know my addiction would use my intelligence against me.'

A fascination with power can be used to seduce you right into the maw of power.

An old biker who worked as a mechanic at my favorite bicycle shop, had lots of tattoos on his arms. He usually kept them covered up, but one warm afternoon, I saw them because he'd rolled up his sleeves.

I pointed to a particular tattoo and asked what it was for.

Very ashamed, the man rolled down his sleeve.

'That particular one is an attention getter. It triggers curiosity. Its really good for starting conversations with girls.'

Your intellect can be turned against you. And you really dont want to learn this the hard way.

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Big question....
Posted by: Guy ()
Date: January 09, 2004 04:23AM


Go for it.
Let me know how it goes.
Having dealt with it before, I have some idea of the outcome. I'd like to be wrong in your case though.
My guess is that in the end you'll end up looking like a smarmy arrogant jerk trying to show everyone how smart and superior you are and how your whole life has always been about getting people to see how brilliant you are. Then they'll draw you into it's all about being recognized and touched and how all your arrogant noise does is keep you from getting what you really want in life. That it produces the opposite effect of what you really aspire and desire.
Your secret Heroic fantasy.
It'll take longer than three sentences but in the end you'll probably end up being somewhere around there.
That's one scenario.
The forum leaders advantage is not that s/he is brighter than you but that that whole room full of people paid money to listen to them and not you. This is the most important advantage. If you can figure out why that would be true, you might have a shot at being a real disruption rather than fodder for their game.


"Knowing all of this, and knowing I have a 142 IQ, and can outwit and out debate any of these "therapists" yet still having a fascination with mind control and the techniques employed (much like cosmo), then, the question is:


Best of luck,

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