I think reality is like this.
Maybe in the big picture even if somebody does something evil it will work out good so maybe there really isn't good and evil if there is God in charge. Like some people think the devil is working for God. I do but my church doesn't.
But even if you can see this, if you are smart you know that there is still right and wrong and its wrong to hurt other people except if they attack your country or family. Its just practical.

Quote
nutrino
... and the great shining trainer could not bring herself to give a flying fuck.

It's that sickeningly supreme imaginary status and unassailable and lofty comfort-zone from which these pretend enlightened (~transformed~) ones operate. That, coupled with the "victims create their own victimhood" thing that breeds contempt for the suffering. Yes, yaaaaas....superiority & contempt...kind of sums it up, doesn't it? The Landmark at-ti-tuuuuuude or ~transformation~ into a complete asshole.



Ellen

People, such as Forum leaders, so-called gurus and teachers protect themselves so well with the "you create your reality" idea.

What is so concerning is that when things do go wrong for participants or followers they seldom look to the leaders as the source of what went wrong.

Instead, thanks to the coercive persuasion used, these people are put on pedestals - they couldn't possibly be wrong because they have all the answers! They are skilled at turning situations around on participants and are remarkably lacking in empathy or basic human compassion.

To quote Corboy: "Responsible teachers will also remind us that someone who has realized nondual reality will be compassionate and make every effort to avoid harming anyone. Such a person will willingly behave in a manner that is kind and ethical"...

Has anyone ever asked this most basic, most revealing question of the true character of the "trainer body"... they may have some other high fallutin' designation for themselves, the Calvinist Elect repackaged in another bottle of toilet bowl cleaner... [b:06fde65cb1] why won't the sign their work ? [/b:06fde65cb1] , meaning... why has the tradition always been that we can only know the trainer by his first name... [b:06fde65cb1] why have we never known them by their full names ? [/b:06fde65cb1] To my way of thinking, this is a great admission that they don't have the completions that they say that they do, they only have enough courage to be known by their first names ? Ask yourself this... [b:06fde65cb1] "in what other populations are members of that population only comfortable being known by their first name ? [/b:06fde65cb1] " What other environments come to mind ? Could you think of two or three ? What up with that ? Somebody might have some "incompletions" with that trainer ? Of course, the trainer never has any "incompletions".... never, impossible by definition... only the trainee... and what... serve the trainer with a subpoena to help get complete ? Maybe have a brisk little chat outside of the protective shell of the training room ? What ARE they afraid of.... I mean... what would they have been afraid of before they became transparent to fear ? [b:06fde65cb1] IF they have nothing to fear, or little to fear, why do they operate from a posture of fear, defensiveness, and suspicion ? [/b:06fde65cb1]

The subject of transparency (such as the provision of names at Landmark), but extending way beyond to methods of work on courses and qualifications, should be of primary importance.

With little or no legislation governing who may or may not present human potential seminars, they are open to exploitation by all sorts of charlatans.

Surely, the presentation of one's credentials, in black and white, and background information with corroborating evidence, would be a good starting point at the beginning of any seminar to help the industry with its issues regarding credibility.

Taking "you create your own reality" - along with "there are no victims" and "there is no right and wrong" - as an example, Corboy explained nicely above how it has been misinterpreted or deliberately manipulated in such a way that a good concept has become one that is now the source of much pain.

Teachers, properly versed in such ideas, from the right sources, would be able to pass on useful, life-enhancing information, but instead we are served up a bastardized version of it that neatly serves the self-serving ways of the LGATs and unethical teachers.

When you look at a guy like [b:bb4b422f3e] Tom Cruise [/b:bb4b422f3e] ... the implicit myth surrounding this guy was look how powerful he must be to create such a powerful reality for himself... that was the illusion, carefully fostered by the real people in charge... and in "real reality" the is an expensive proposition of public relations, image management, plastic surgery, meticulously crafted advertising campaigns... Tom's problem was he lost sight of all that, he bought the fiction that he indeed was "source" creating his reality that would magically fall into place if he squinched up his eyebrows and radiated intensity.... he forgot that he was a carefully groomed pawn in a much larger game.... and finally Sumner Redstone said, in effect...." Mr. Cruise, you fine theories may sound enticing on fluffy talk shows, in front of adoring audiences, but over here where we deal in industrial strength power, you're just another expendable pretty face " .... so one wonders how the LGATs are taking the news... Tom ? Oh yeah, Tom.... he stopped being in the listening of possibility...uh, yeah, the cover of the National Enquirer.... something like that... he, uh, we uh... ya gotta be unreasonable ya see... was Tom unreasonable ? Uhhh... Osama bin Laden... that's a different listening for possibility, that's errr. Islamic radical listening... like Xenu... Xenu... Xenu listening ? Not ummm, Hobbits and Middle Earth ? Noooooo.... Some kinda volcano filled with frozen aliens or something... noooo, not Werner... he's... he's not Tom, not Osama, not going on a trip, not Xenu, not about to go on a trip to Xenu, a trip to... Detroit... yeah, lets all be in the listening of Detroit and declare.... what should we declare ? Then end of global warming ? Sure. Why not ?

One morning I overheard a very upsetting anti-semitic discussion on the subway. One of the men was preaching anti-semitism right in front of his small child! That disturbed me a great deal to know that this child was being indoctrinated to hate at such a young age. I was too frightened to say anything, but it bothered me all day.

That night I went to a satsang with an Advaita teacher. Advaita (non-duality) also advocates the "create your own reality" belief, except theirs is more of a "nothing is real; it's all an illusion" belief.

Anyway, I got a few private moments with the teacher and I told him what happened on the subway and how upset it made me. He gave me a spaced-out smile and said, "None of that is real, unless you want it to be."

Umm..Okay... :roll:

Creating your own reality?

Are we all responsible then for child abuse, the war in Iraq, the war in Afghanistan, road rage, alcoholism, drug abuse, manipulative LGATS?

They exist in our world. Did we all get together and decide to make up the same reality?

:shock:

And herein lies the "dark road" that ultimately leads to something like the philosophy of fascism, or worse.... Erhardism has two major philosophic threads woven together, one, to my thinking, is benign, it it their [b:d4c580fd94] "make a difference" stance [/b:d4c580fd94].... the other thread, more closely associated with occultism and weirdo language philosophy, is the [b:d4c580fd94] "each and every person intends their reality into being" stance [/b:d4c580fd94] .... and here is the grand flaw, the blow up in your face flaw, with this half assed theory... at least the way they go about teaching it.... they make the assumption, or perhaps they're too dumb or complacent to sit down and scrutinize what they're talking about, that each and every individual is equally endowed with the power to "intend reality" ... in their model, the mentally retarded is indistince from the corporate CEO, yet, common sense tells us that some, by virtue of their DNA, or their good fortune, are in substantially different positions of "creating reality" than others .... so you see, what this can be read as saying is that each person [i:d4c580fd94] deserves to be where he is because this is what he really intended .... or worse anyone in a position of power over other people, no matter how corrupt, how brutal, how indifferent to the consequences of that power, got there through successful intending [/i:d4c580fd94] .... so ultimately you have a massively elitist, might makes right, "your life if God's plan for your life" ... almost medieval view of how social relations should work....

Somehow these two major social postions manage to co-exist in their thought processes as an [b:d4c580fd94] unstable mixture [/b:d4c580fd94] of fundamentally incompatible beliefs, as if they are arguing for the will to serve and the will to power at the same time.........