Ask a Landmartian
Date: August 29, 2023 06:47AM

Hi all -

I am posting here with something that may be unusual for these forums.

I have been continuously participating in programs at Landmark for about the last four years (since spring of 2019). However, I did the Forum in 2015. The reason I did the Forum is because I had begun dating someone in 2014 who, I learned, was participating in programs at Landmark. Prior to meeting him, I had never heard of Landmark.

I did some research on the internet and, as everyone on here surely knows, much of what I found concerned me. I became convinced it was a cult. (I should note that I wrote off and was completely uninterested in any evidence to the contrary, in any accounts or testimonials that were positive or even neutral about Landmark, no matter how credible the source. I only gave credence to negative/critical coverage.)

After many conversations - and, honestly, arguments - about it with my then-boyfriend (now husband), I decided I needed to do it for myself. That was the only way I could prove to him Landmark was a cult. In the summer of 2015, I did the Forum. I told him I was open to the experience and to having my mind changed about it. While I was open to the experience - if I’m going to spend three days doing something, I may as well try to get something out of it - but, being honest, I wasn’t willing to change my mind about it being a cult. I knew this thing was a cult and there was no way I would be convinced otherwise.

Honestly, it blew my mind. It’s not that I wasn’t skeptical the whole time - I was. However, by the time the weekend was over, not only had I gotten to the root of some intractable relationship issues with friends and family, but I experienced a profound sense of general freedom. I also realized the descriptor “cult” just did not fit this organization.

Despite all of that, I ultimately opted to not continue participating in their programs. Although I didn’t think Landmark counted as a cult, I didn’t care for what I felt were aggressive “sales” tactics. It really put me off. I also asked my boyfriend to not participate for a year. I felt strongly about not having that kind of a presence in my life. Although he was not thrilled, he agreed.

Fast forward four years, my now-husband and I are on the other side of some big reparative work in our marriage (unrelated to Landmark). At the beginning of 2019, he expressed to me an intention to participate in a program with them again. I had no problem with this. In fact, I was actually quite supportive of him doing so. The program he registered into meets for one weekend about every eight weeks. To something of my own surprise, after he completed the first weekend, I decided I want to join him. (If you’re wondering, he did not ask me to do so.) I ended up registering into the same program and we took it together.

My experience in that course was great. It was the summer of that year that I finally resolved an incredibly upsetting thing that happened with my parents (primarily my mom) when I was a senior in high school.

As I mentioned in the beginning, I have been participating in programs at Landmark since then. Which brings me to this post.

I consider myself somewhat interested in cults. I wouldn’t say I’m fascinated by them - I haven’t watched every cult documentary available on streaming services - but I enjoy reading and listening to things about them when they cross my radar. I occasionally pop onto this board and click through some posts.

I’m posting here because I thought people on this forum - perhaps people who have friends or family who participate in Landmark’s programs, or maybe are just interested in it and have some questions - might be interested in getting the perspective of someone who participates in their programs and who has held a range of viewpoints about the organization. Of course, that may not be of interest to anyone, and that’s fine.

It is not my intention or interest to convince anyone of anything about Landmark or to take any of their programs. I just thought I would say hello and offer to provide my take on any things regarding Landmark about which people are curious.

Landmark tried to obtain identities of this message board's users
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 31, 2023 01:22AM

In 2004 Landmark sued Rick Ross and this website back when it was Rick Ross dot com.

Here's the CEI archive of info about Landmark.

'Litigation' and 'Labor Violations' are among the topics.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2023 01:31AM by corboy.

Re: Landmark tried to obtain identities of this message board's users
Date: August 31, 2023 04:22AM

corboy Wrote:
> In 2004 Landmark sued Rick Ross and this website
> back when it was Rick Ross dot com.
> Here's the CEI archive of info about Landmark.
> 'Litigation' and 'Labor Violations' are among the
> topics.

May I ask why you posted this?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2023 04:23AM by SomewhereInMiddleAmerica.

Re: Ask a Landmartian
Posted by: kdag ()
Date: September 19, 2023 07:11PM

I haven't been around Landmark since 2009, but my experience was ghastly, long lasting, and life-destroying. I gained absolutely nothing from the program that I hadnt already gotten elsewhere - really, it's just a bunch of reframing mixed in with mind-fuck. I would strongly advise anybody and everybody to stay well away from it. You may have gotten away in one piece, if you didn't ask the wrong questions, or make the wrong observations within earshot of the wrong people, but not everyone is so lucky. They DID come after me, and I am still paying for it. My entire life has deteriorated because i allowed myself to be talked into taking the program. I would sue my recruuter, if i could

Re: Ask a Landmartian
Posted by: kdag ()
Date: September 19, 2023 10:41PM

It makes me almost physically ill that you would get on this message board and defend this program. These boards are full of people who have been seriously injured or had their lives destroyed by LGATS and other cults. To read your post is like reading a post by someone who dated Ted Bundy and didn't get murdered, so they go online and tell everybody, "He's not that bad." Grow a brain.

Re: Ask a Landmartian
Posted by: PurpleOrchid ()
Date: September 22, 2023 03:44AM

I'm so sorry you had that experience I was in that abusive cult for about five years and bullied and harrassed by Landmark staff for my neurodivergent (autism/ADHD) challenges because being on time is being 'in integrity' and all that bs.

I like you have had up to here with Landmark cult apologists and staffers (as no doubt this person is from her absurdly unlikely tale, nice try but you gave yourself away when you said you discounted any positive or neutral reviews to give yourself soem semblance of credibility) whose job it is to come onto survivor forums and discussions about cults 'just to offer an alternative perspective'and in the process gaslighting and dismissing survivors. I've had many people saying to me it's people's own fault if they get psychologically damaged becuase it's in the disclaimers or it's 'not for everyone'.

Funny then that the majority of people I met in Landmark wre neurodivergent and had a history and present of mental health issues...Whilst I had to listen to a person on the phone during my indoctrination labour programme (ILP) (as I call it) on a phone marketing assisting session tell me that their partner had killed themselves after the Forum. Which goes to show how little they care about their customers that they'd still have them on a call list.

Now doing everything in my power to make people aware of how dangerous and manipulative they are.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2023 03:46AM by PurpleOrchid.

Re: Ask a Landmartian
Posted by: PurpleOrchid ()
Date: September 22, 2023 03:50AM

I've also reported the post FYI citing conerns above.

Re: Ask a Landmartian
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: September 22, 2023 05:24AM


Assuming you are genuine and not someone working for Landmark online I have a couple of questions for you.

1. If the Landmark philosophy and its curriculum of courses are so effective what happened to Werner Erhard? Divorce, family estrangements, years in seclusion, staffers that were abused. If his philosophy is so meaningful why didn't it change him or his life for the better?

See []

Werner Erhard instead seems to be the poster boy for failure. Sure he is rich, but his personal and professional life is train wreck. Why didn't Landmark work for Erhard?

2. Why hasn't Landmark done a scientific study to demonstrate the effectiveness of its training? Such a study could be peer-reviewed and published in a credible scientific journal demonstrating that Landmark training produces objectively measurable results. That is, better grades in school, lower divorce rate, increased income, less need for medication related to depression, etc.

Landmark certainly can afford to fund such a study and makes anecdotal claims about the effectiveness of its training, but has never done such a study. Instead, Landmark has done surveys with participants polling how they feel subjectively about the training, which is not the same as objectively measurable results.

Can you answer the questions on point?

Re: Ask a Landmartian
Date: September 22, 2023 10:29AM

kdag - First of all, I’m sorry to hear about your experience. That sounds terrible.

In terms of my post…I didn’t say anything about defending them. And I didn’t say anything about them not being that bad.

I actually think it’s important to be clear that I didn’t say anything about them being anything - good, bad, or otherwise.

I said explicitly that I am not interested in convincing anyone of anything about Landmark. Rather, I said that I am offering to provide my experience and perspective to anyone who is interested. If you are not - fair enough!

Re: Ask a Landmartian
Date: September 22, 2023 10:42AM

PurpleOrchid -

First of all, I'm a he, not a she. (Just FYI!)

Second, I actually did discredit any positive or neutral reports that I came across. You're entitled to your beliefs about my account, but, nonetheless.

Third, my post is neither gaslighting nor dismissing of people who have had negative experiences with Landmark. There is not one word in my post that says anything about the veracity of people's negative reports. As a matter of fact, I don't doubt people have had bad (or even, necessarily, terrible) experiences with Landmark.

If you are suggesting that the fact that I say I have had a different experience with Landmark than you/others is a form of gaslighting, then...I'm not sure what to tell you. That's not gaslighting. My experience does not invalidate yours any more than yours does mine. They can both be true. It seems, actually, that they are.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2023 10:46AM by SomewhereInMiddleAmerica.

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