Hello. I’m not sure how to even begin. I went to Choice center in Las Vegas in 2016 at the continued request from my older sister. She was and currently is a head coach there. I want to preface with the fact that I have always suffered from mental illness. I have borderline personality disorder and my sister knew this when begging me to go. Despite the numerous waivers I had to sign and the fact that it clearly stated this was not a place for people with a serious mental illness, my sister still insisted it was safe to go. I won’t even go into detail the disgusting behavior I witnessed from trainers and coaches there. We all know the abuse. I just want to say if you’re here to tell me these places are not awful, please do not post to this message. We have nothing to discuss and you will only serve to pollute this conversation. If you still decide to post, it is proof to me you are nothing but a troll. Anyways, fast forward through the program, and you can guess it had pretty horrific effects on me. I have continued horrific flash backs and the fact that my sister is still in love with this place and continues to bring it up and try to get my family to go makes it impossible for me to move on and recover. I have spoken to her so many times but the fact is it’s her life and she will never change. She knows how it hurt me and exactly how I feel. I now feel a hatred towards her I can’t escape. I deal with horrible anxiety and anger every time she calls me. She’s very explosive if I ever tell her to stop bringing up Choice so it’s gotten to the point where I just sit there and deal with it because I’m exhausted from asking her to keep it to herself. I feel enormous hurt just from the fact that she still is involved with this toxic place that caused me so much harm and still is trying to get the people I love to go. The knowledge now after discovering this site and how many people are harmed by these places makes me sick. I had zero idea that these places were seen as true cults by experts in the field (Ross, Singer, Langone). My sister has always said the only people that think it’s a cult are just angry people who couldn’t cut it at Choice. Anyways I now have seething hatred towards my sister and deep resentment. We talk regularly and she has zero idea I’m here thinking about killing myself because I hate her so much while she rambles on. I just can’t take the screaming matches with her anymore so I don’t have the energy to tell her. She would just yell and cry at me that it’s not fair etc. I feel totally hopeless and alone. I’ve gone through so many years of therapy for my mental illness and finally had enough that I can’t imagine going back for this issue. I feel at the end of my rope and want to end it all. I think it’s the invalidation that makes me suicidal. The fact that I know she thinks Choice harmed me because I’m “ill” and not because they are all horribly abusive in the way they treat people. It feels like my uncle raped me and I’m trying to go to the police and they are telling me it’s my fault. And every day my uncle calls me on the phone to chat and tells me not to be so sensitive, meanwhile trying to groom my younger brother (the person my sister is trying to enroll). I don’t know what to do. This is my last attempt to find some way to get better before seriously considering harming myself.

Dane, you are seriously asking the wrong people for help. Please call a suicide hotline ASAP.

I’ve been suicidal most of my life. Been inside mental hospitals. Have had years of therapy. I’m done with professional help. It’s never done me any good. A suicidal hotline surely won’t either. The harm I’ve experienced from Choice center and the constant reminder of it through my sister is only the tip of the iceberg of my problems. I’ve struggled with borderline personality disorder my entire life. Experienced severe trauma. Etc etc. I have OCD, ADD, PTSD. And guess what? I’m getting married in two fucking months and all I can think about is how I’d be better off dead. This forum was a way to vent and maybe get some others to say hey, I went through this too. Yet, all the people on here that say these places are harmless and I’m just living in fear only serve to perpetuate how I always feel crazy and nobody ever believes me, even my own sister. Peace.

Hi Dane,

I really hope I'm not too late in writing this. So sorry to hear about what you're going through, please get support where you can. Don't be shy about reaching out to friends/people you trust if you have any, have you spoken to your wife?

Congratulations on the wedding too! I think that shows you there are still things worth living for even though it really may not seem like it at the moment.

Have you tried joining the International Cultic Studies Association? They have quite a few resources and events for cult survivors on there which could be helpful and they have a page listing of available cult survivor support groups, at least one of which is free:[www.icsahome.com]

I strongly recommend that if you can't afford a therapist or one-to-one help you try to join a peer support group or get involved in some sort of community group whether that be something to do with an activity that you enjoy and makes you feel good or something to do with mental health etc (could be that a group for people with BPD/complex ND diagnoses or who have experienced sexual abuse may be helpful too, there's a lot of different ones on Facebook) because that would hopefully be able to make you feel less alone with it all.

Whatever you do please don't suffer alone and understand that whatever you're going through, this too will pass. Even if it feels in the moment like it never will. Believe me I've been there and it's a horrible place to be but it can get better it can just take a lot of work sometimes to do the things we know will benefit us. And if you're anything like me you can easily get impatient and despondent and think it's all hopeless.

And please don't let some ridiculous people on here who are cult apologist trolls and have their own issues, put you off from reaching out here too. You did a really brave thing by doing that, don't let anyone convince you otherwise. I know what it's like to feel like you have no other outlets sometimes.

Final thing some books that may or may not help (haven't read all of them):

Because I'm Bad by Lily Bailey (memoir about dealing with OCD)
When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron (free on PDFdrive.com)
Embracing Your Inner Critic by Hal and Sidra Stone
Complex PTSD by Paul Walker (also on PDF Drive I think, but beware has a propensity to dismiss other neurodivergent diagnoses a bit too much)
Reasons to Stay Alive by Matt Haig
The Recovery Letters by Olivia Sagan and James Withey
Coping with BPD: DBT and CBT Skills to Soothe the Symptoms of Boderline Personality Disorder by Blaise Aguirre and Gillian Galen.

Hope that was helpful in some way and keep going. Virtual hugs.

Priscilla x

Hey Priscilla,

Thank you for the really thought out and detailed response. I appreciate it. I am still here. I have not physically harmed myself. I do think about it often. Yes, I do talk to the ones closest to me that I can trust. My wife is my biggest supporter and we regularly talk about our feelings. She is amazing. I am definitely not alone and have a few others too that I go to regularly to vent to. I am not keeping this bottled up. I simply can't go back to therapy. I am open to other options for support, though. I will look into the books and groups you suggested. Thank you again for your support. Obviously, not everyone on here is that way. I will do my best to take care of myself and work through my shit. Thank you and take care.

Best,

Dane

I am just now realizing you were one of the people interviewed in that "On Belief" podcast about LGAT's. That was INCREDIBLY helpful to listen to. Thank you kindly for also being brave and being a part of that. Take care.

I was wrong! You were part of the neurodiversity podcast. Sorry, I confused the two! I will make sure to listen to that one as well!

Lastly, I just saw you are looking for stories about ND people for your talk at the conference on cults and if you need someone I would be happy to talk. I am not part of any marginalized group though. Straight white dude here! I simply deal with ND diagnoses such as BPD etc. Thanks! Sorry for the obsessive responses, I think I am just overwhelmed by your incredibly helpful response above. Take care.

Do you think I should write about my specific experiences there in more detail?

Hi Dane, Hope you're still reading here and I'd like to give you my small bit of knowledge. I imagine most people don't think much of the long-term psychological damage that can persist decades after you've left a cult or that, if you've sought out counsel or "deprogramming" you've can or should have "gotten over" the sad, sick number they can do on your mind. I liked how Leah Remini explained how much more difficult it was for her having been born into scientology and not having any other perspective growing up. They all use a similar play-book, and that one does a deep dive into the very most elemental of your beliefs, convictions, assumptions, impressions, and ways of assessing and evaluating things. They are cynical and exploitative users who find whatever leverage they can to take control of your time, your money, your life. The more you study them, the more evil they reveal. For many it's a long, slow slog out of what was a quick and slippery slide into their clutches. I'd like to think Val Kilmer nailed it when he said: "God want us to walk. The devil sends a limo."

Ellen