PMed Boonetahoe to see if he was still around and got a message from him that he has tried posting and nothing is showing up. If that's true, then he didn't just slink away. Not sure why he can't post. I have noticed it takes more time for posts and replies to show up and that has slowed down the debate here.

Have heard of some interesting new personnel changes at GLF/Impact. Waiting to see if they show up here and how that plays out. Anyone else hearing anything new/interesting????

Among other things, Mike Gardner appears to be getting his Experience Training off the ground.

See:

www.theexperiencetraining.com

and

[www.serious-self-improvement-resources.com]


Might be worth protesting at:

The Quality Inn, 1659 W North Temple, Salt Lake City, during the week of Nov 13-17

to stop another one of these BS companies from getting started, to keep folks from being hurt there, or to help them recover.

Best,

------Ed

It wouldn't surprise me if he was being blocked from the forum for attempting to recruit for Great Life. His position within the LGAT makes his first post and several since obvious attempts at using the forum to recruit. Since that is a direct violation of forum rules, he is probably no longer being allowed to post by the moderators.

Quote
formerimpactgrad
It wouldn't surprise me if he was being blocked from the forum for attempting to recruit for Great Life. His position within the LGAT makes his first post and several since obvious attempts at using the forum to recruit. Since that is a direct violation of forum rules, he is probably no longer being allowed to post by the moderators.

That is what I have assumed.

There is an enormous difference between being generally positive about a training and recruiting/advertising for a training. I have never posted training dates and times, nor have I ever encouraged anyone to attend any training with which I'm affiliated.

Now, let's take a look at the forum rules in relation to how the anti-Impact posters have behaved:

"Vitriolic posts that personally attack people will not be tolerated and are grounds for banning the author from this message board."

I believe that there is no doubt whatsoever that formerimpactgrad and exImpact, among others, have been clearly guilty of making personal attacks. Need I quote the oh-so-obvious posts where you venomously attack myself and others? However, since you are making statements AGAINST LGATs, the moderators seem willing to overlook your clear violation of the Forum Rules.

"Any person that is here to cause trouble, start arguments and/or intimidate people will be banned."

While this is quite subjective, I think any reasonable person would note the many attempts by the posters on this board to intimidate me.

At the same time, I believe that a thorough review of my posts would indicate that I have been respectfully polite in voicing my opinion despite the many attempts to intimidate me into silence (and the volume of insults levelled at me and others.)

If we're really serious about the forum rules, then this thread gets to be reviewed with an impartial eye from a moderator who is committed to the forum rules more than he/she may be committed to slamming LGATs.

Its always about the other person isn't it boonetahoe. You've spent so much time blaming us and trying to pin stuff on us that one might reasonably assume that you don't really buy into the whole accountability principle. I love LGAT hypocrisy, its always the same from your type...

Find a post where I have personally attacked you or someone else. I have vehemently attacked arguments but my guess is that you would have a hard time actually finding a post where I have personally attacked anyone. Unless you're referring to my "20 pieces of silver" statement which I believe is quite accurate since your involvement with recruitment in LGATs is very much like selling your fellow man down the river for a relatively small personal benefit (whether financial of otherwise). Do you have anything that you can reference or are you just making blind statements again?

Boonetahoe,

Not sure how to respond to this post; have many mixed feelings.

1) For whatever personal attacks you've felt, for one, I'd like to apologize. (Mostly because that works in my life these days, and is so in contrast to how your grads come out of your training. Mostly they don't know how to respond to an apology; nor would they ever offer one, at least not in a training room.)

2) I like how you forward the debate here (not with every part of every post -- but in the ways you do, I find value in gaining clarity in my own feelings about what I've experienced over the years I have spent around Hans, Sally, Steve, Pam, Bruce, Dorothy, David, Duane, John, Mike, Pamela, JJ, Justin, Analee, and a host of other whacked-out "trainers" (read: unqualified/unable to get a real job.)

3) I wonder if you can offer any criticisms of Harmony/GL at all? Anything not working for you there? Any processes you'd like to see evolve?

(I hear Impact has watered down Feedback Arcs and Lifeboat because "we're attracting more evolved lightworkers from around hte planet and don't need to do what we've always done . . .")

4) Does that kind of talk lead you to believe Impact is a cult, or not?

5) To be fair, I'll challenge Former and Ex to say if looking back on it all, they can find ANY thing of value in all their training experiences. I'll take a risk and say, I do cherish some moments in those trainings. Really amazing experiences. And to be clear: I do not believe the costs (not so much financial as emotional/psychological/personal) to be anywhere near worth it for those times. Nor do I recommend these trainings.

6) My first experience of you here was responding to your advice to NOTImpacted to "do the Impact Trainings" to "save her relationships with her family."

Surely you see at least some aspects of Impact, TITish ones at the very least, to be cult-like. You claim to know Hans and Sally are criminals, as are others there. They have a clear record of not paying bills, employees, the IRS, etc, etc. They (as far as I know) have made no efforts to clean up their the messes, broken relationships, dishonesty with anyone, not even close family members, former loyal employees, former participants. No effort. They "live a higher law."

So, pardon my emotionality here, but, What the hell are you thinking recommending THAT? How could you? Do you really not get the perspective here for those of us who just can't understand that way of being you show forth? (Sorry, "don't get your come-from?) It sure looks like recruiting people into an LGAT to me. Even if it's not your own. And it appears as a strategy to do that "Impact really bad, but not so bad not to do it, Harmony better, so come here" is the LOUD, albiet implicit, message.

7) The videos are creepy. Imagine watching a dozen people on video defend David Koresh and you might know how I and others here feel watching yours. I, for one, literally wanted to puke. Leaves me feeling sick to my stomach. Really.

8) So GLF has hired Bruce (and thus, Dorothy and Layla Soloman).

I could say more, but let's leave it as, "Like energy attracts like energy," "Birds of a feather flock together," "criminals tend to associate with other criminals," "you will get what you deserve."

Perhaps you should have checked with some law enforcement officials, before hiring the likes of him.

For those who don't know; Bruce, Dorothy and their completely disfunctional/seemingly psychotic daughter Layla were old Lifespring grads/staff/trainers -- Layla has claimed to have been Hans' small group leader at Lifespring -- then Bruce worked for Hans at Impact around Liftoffs 40 to 69 or so, when he was scheduled to train a Lift-off weekend, but enrolled all the staff for that weekend into starting Rising Star (leaving the Impact trainees waiting in the lobby with no trainers or staff there for their weekend). Rising Star became vision-works, had centers in Denver, Washington State, SLC, and elsewhere, and went bankrupt earlier this year.

Remember "results don't lie."

His are both criminal (something you claimed GLF was free of) and disgusting in ways that were I to post here, I might risk being accused of a personal attack.

Let's just say one good question to ask Bruce, is one of Dorothy's favorites to ask Quest trainees: HEY, Bruce Solomon -- Who did you choose to get FAT at?

I'm sorry Boonetahoe, but I really can't write about this stuff without feeling disgusted.

I hope you do see the light someday, and to the degree the intensify of the feelings some of us have about this stuff has slowed down your progress toward that, I again apologize.

But come on man. You are a bright guy. This (meaning your experiences with Impact, Hans, etc) really cannot be working for you and everyone you claim it is, as well as you seem to me at least, to be fighting to convince us it is.

Till then, if you don't mind, I will keep you, and everyone who may be subjected to Bruce Solomon's insanity (and that of all the other "trainers" on the planet) in my heart-felt prayers.

Best,

-------Ed

I do not credit the Impact Trainings for anything positive that may have happened while I was involved in the trainings.
And this is why:
Any experience or trauma can have a positive result if it is taken to be that way by the point of view of the observer. The burden of the determination of value of an experience/situation lies in the lap of each individual perspective. I never saw any process or procedure while I was at Impact work across the board for everyone who experienced it. If you decide to find value in any experience, you "create" or determine that value for yourself. Impact even says this as a disclaimer in Quest, but how often are you asked to pay Impact back for everything they have done for you? Pretty much non-stop after Quest, they even use the Quest graduation and the testimonials to manipulate people into their program. You may want to try to wiggle out of this, saying that any product that is beneficial should advertise yada yada yada, but I KNOW WITHOUT A DOUBT that I could have gone somewhere else that was not founded on deception, manipulation, corruption and have found MORE value than what I ever found at Impact. I only say this because I have done that very thing.

You know, it is idiotic to suggest that a few positive experiences should be given more emphasis than the negative. The negative experiences I have had from the Impact Trainings, particularly the TIT3 nonsense, twisted and perverted all of the positive things I had experienced. I let myself be vulnerable and they took advantage of me. I have had to disassociate Impact from those good experiences just so that I can think there is anything good about life again.

If you are giving Impact any credit for any benefit you garnered while you were in there midst, you do so in error. Get out of denial, give yourself ALL the credit (like they told you to in Quest) and stop trying to reconcile your bruised ego for allowing yourself to be utterly duped by trying to build these sleaze bag opportunists up higher than the hind-end of humanity they truly are.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2007 03:43AM by exImpact.

I have only personally attacked the stances of those LGAT apologists who come here trying to run their number, spewing their lies and contrived bull in a place that is set up to help people get out of these LGAT's and hopefully return and rebuild their lives. Can't really attack a position without seemingly attacking the one who expressed it. This is a practical matter you are addressing in an impractical, self-serving fashion. This is an "anti" board, so don't come in here thinking you will be treated in an equitable way if you are an LGAT insider who comes into the forums knowingly breaking the ground rules by peddling their LGAT fueled self interests.

If there is a moderator that is more interested in enforcing the rules than slamming LGATs, they have their priorities confused. It is a bit naive to suggest such a possibility.

Quote
exImpact
5) To be fair, I'll challenge Former and Ex to say if looking back on it all, they can find ANY thing of value in all their training experiences.

My answer to this is a resounding no. I suppose I may learn something about self preservation and security if someone broke into my house and robbed me. I may also learn to deal with intense personal feelings if my child was murdered but I'm certainly not going to thank that person and say that they did me a service. My time at Impact was by far the most miserable of my entire life.