Werner Erhard and his interesting pals
Posted by: bakkagirl ()
Date: July 05, 2018 11:06PM

For a guy who forbade aspirin consumption during est training, W.E. kept interesting companions.


LSD subcultures: Acidoxy versus orthodoxy.
V Gioscia - American Journal of Orthopsychiatry, 1969 - psycnet.apa.org
Participant observation and interviews in San Francisco, New York, and London make it possible to present some of the distinguishing characteristics of the LSD and therapy subcultures. Characteristics discussed are: subcultural differentiation, status, relevant …Cited by 11 Related articles All 5 versions

[CITATION] Psychedelic drugs: proceedings of a Hahnemann Medical College and Hospital symposium sponsored by the Department of Psychiatry
RE Hicks, PJ Fink, OH Van Buren - 1969 - Grune & Stratton
Cited by 6 Related articles

[CITATION] Groovin'on Time: Fragments of a Sociology of the Psychedelic Experience
V Gioscia - Psychedelic drugs: proceedings of a Hahnemann …, 1969
Cited by 6 Related articles

[CITATION] The Future of Time: Man's Temporal Environment
HM Yaker, H Osmond, F Cheek - 1972 - Anchor Books
Cited by 34 Related articles

[BOOK] Origin and Mechanisms of Hallucinations: Proceedings of the 14th Annual Meeting of the Eastern Psychiatric Research Association Held in New York City …
W Keup - 2013 - books.google.com… GIOSCIA, Victor, Ph. D., Associate Professor of Sociology and Philo- sophy at Adelphi University, and Senior Sociologist, Center for the Study of Social Change, Roosevelt Hospital, l; 28 West 59th Str., New York, NY 10019 …Cited by 35 Related articles

Psychedelic myths, Metaphors, and Fantasies
V Gioscia - Origin and Mechanisms of Hallucinations, 1970 - Springer
Participant observation is a method of research which suffers paradoxically from its own merits, since it yields up far more data than one can neatly conceptualize and statistically manipulate. Nevertheless, clinicians and social scientists have long been aware that it is …Cited by 2 Related articles

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Werner Erhard and his interesting pals
Posted by: kdag ()
Date: July 07, 2018 03:42AM

I read the link, which goes to a W.E. explanation of est. I didn't see how it tied in to drug use, or his associates. Maybe you can clarify that.

What I did notice was this:

"...This is done in an environment - or 'space' - that is safe enough for them to do that. That is, in a safe space, there is no expectation that you prove anything, or demonstrate anything, or keep up any appearances. In a safe space, whatever is so is not used to justify or explain or be consistent with a point of view..."

This seems to be what they want you to believe, but then after you have either shared, or have been "coached," they use any information they have gleaned for leverage, if you have not accepted their point of view. Also, I see quite a bit of hypocrisy when they talk about "safe space," but they then use information that you never shared with them, but that was provided by your recruiter, whom you met in a support group, 12-step group, or any other "safe space."

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Werner Erhard and his interesting pals
Posted by: bakkagirl ()
Date: July 07, 2018 05:59AM

You wrote:

"I read the link, which goes to a W.E. explanation of est. I didn't see how it tied in to drug use, or his associates. Maybe you can clarify that."

Sorry I was not more clear. It seems to me that W.E. frequently sought to give est credibility by associating himself with academics in the context of of public speaking events, or by writing papers or books with academics.

I had not heard of Victor Giocia. The article mentions an APA conference, so I assumed he was a psychologist who, maybe, focused on group dynamics, or human potential, or leadership development.

I could find almost nothing about him in usual searches, other than a [PAID FOR] obituary in the New York Times.

Did a Google Scholar search and found that Dr. Giocia focused on one topic only, LSD research. I think it is pretty well known now that much of this research was government-sponsored, and some of the testing was done on unwitting members of the public, and particularly in the S.F. Bay Area of the 1970's.

It seems to me that est was an sort of experiment, a fine tuning of different technologies so as to maximize their effect on the human nervous system. His co-author, in this case, was also performing experiments on humans and related to the impact of psychedelics on mood states, etc.

This might be an innocent or coincidental association, but I find it an interesting one.


With regard to est groups providing a 'safe space' in which to share, I think plenty of people, including yourself, concluded that it had not been safe to share in an LGAT, and that you could not trust recruiters or facilitators to maintain professional boundaries.

I suppose that according to the bizarre logic of est/Landmark, participants are ultimately responsible for these boundary violations, and any other unpleasantness they encounter.

Whether you assess LGAT's as money making schemes, or 'safe spaces' created by people of good intention, they are staffed primarily by volunteers, and the trainers and 'coaches' have no professional obligation to keep confidences.

As risky as this is for individuals who attend these groups as private individuals, the risk multiplies when employees are required to participate in training, which prompts them to share information they would not ordinarily share with their workmates. Sadly, I see high potential for abuses of trust in both scenarios.


Options: ReplyQuote

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.