It's been almost a year since I lost my ex-fiancé to an LGAT, and I am still feeling depressed.

I am with someone new now, and it is an amazing relationship.

But I am still feeling depressed, hopeless, apathetic, bored, and cynical about life in general. I'm not sure how much of this is from the break-up and how much is a reaction to the training.

Is this normal? Have any of you experienced this?

Hello,

I'm sorry to hear that you're struggling with your emotions one year on after losing your ex-fiancé in this manner.

Did you also participate in the training too? I'm sorry if I haven't read any earlier posts and you did.

Its now 8 years since I participated in a LGAT and I think it does take time because I found it hard to accept that I 'fell for it". I found it very helpful reading about their tricks on here and realising that I was not a fool but they were very clever con artists.

And then you had a double whammy of losing a fiancé too.

I think it takes time to adjust. So I'm sadly not too surprised that you feel this way.

Are there ways you can build up your own self esteem again other than via a relationship? I'm glad you have found someone else but if they haven't been through a LGAT, they might not fully understand how traumatic it was. And you might not want to drag them into that mess anyway.

What I discovered is that the LGATs work on making the participants believe that without their support, your life is meaningless. And until I found other areas of meaning in my life - which I have - it was hard to move on.

I'm sure you will in time. And I hope you find ways sooner than later.

Hi GloriaG,

Thank you so much for replying to my post.

Yes, I did participate in the training.

Can I ask how long it took for you to heal after the training? Why is it that you think the training creates such a sense of meaninglessness and emptiness? I've never experienced anything like this.

Hello Noncompliant94,

I participated over a 3 month period. I did 2 weekend sessions, plus a 10 week course plus 1 day of a longer course which I opted out of.

I was in a depressed state before I participated but I was also aware that the sessions were making me worse and that is why I opted out. I became terrified. Initially I felt euphoria at having realised I had to get out and escape. Then that sense of meaningless and emptiness you describe descended on me.

I think the training creates these feelings for two reasons. 1) We emotionally invested in this training bringing meaning to our lives. We wanted an answer and there was none.

But no 2) is that they use underhand tactics to plant the idea that life is empty and meaningless in our subconscious so that we will go back and take more courses and of course give them more of our hard earned money.

The only way I found to move on was to fully understand what had actually happened to me. And I did that by spending hours reading all the threads about my LGAT on this wonderful forum.

For example I discovered that one exercise which seemed harmless was actually designed to implant fear in our minds and to keep us frightened. They also use waking hypnosis to again implant their ideology.Posts by the Anticult and Corboy are very useful.

You will get better but it does take time. If you can,try and do things that used to give you pleasure or positive meaning in the past. Enjoy the sunshine, the Spring, anything that is life affirming and you will get through this. It took me longer than I would have expected for something I only engaged with for 3 months, I would say I was reading this site regularly for 6 months to a year. But that is not so surprising when I felt duped and I wanted to know why and regain control of myself.

Keep going and you will get through this.

Gloria G wrote:

Quote

You will get better but it does take time. If you can,try and do things that used to give you pleasure or positive meaning in the past. Enjoy the sunshine, the Spring, anything that is life affirming and you will get through this. It took me longer than I would have expected for something I only engaged with for 3 months, I would say I was reading this site regularly for 6 months to a year.

Gloria is right. When we have spent a lot of time in an abusive situation, our minds and bodies are drained and ground down from stress, sleeplessness, skipping meals or eating unbalanced meals.

Worse, we forget what play feels like - and we forget what genuine, non exploitative human companionship feels like.

Get out and play. LGATs often keep people indoors in hyper controlled environments. Get outdoors, go to the local dog park, the beach, anything where people frolic.

Gloria G wrote:

For example I discovered that one exercise which seemed harmless was actually designed to implant fear in our minds and to keep us frightened. They also use waking hypnosis to again implant their ideology.

Corboy:

If you feel OK about it, could you describe what the exercise consisted of?

If this brings up too much anxiety, no need to mention it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2018 05:13AM by corboy.

Hi Corboy,

Thanks for you question about the fear exercise. No, I don't mind mentioning as it was a long time ago now.

We were asked to close our eyes and to imagine feeling afraid of the people around us. This moment was held until we could hear people sobbing. I remember feeling nothing but discomfort. We then had to repeat the process but this time to imagine laughing at them.

What we were told by the leader was this was an exercise in conquering fear but I learned from this forum that it actually worked in reverse. It instilled the concept of fear in us at a deep psychology level.

There were other exercises which were also odd and I believe had hidden meaning. One involved the leader at repeated intervals during the weekend drawing two large circles on a white board. I remember thinking that they reminded me of two large eyes looking at us.

And another involved the leader walking around and around us, talking all the time, saying the same phrases over and over, to illustrate how we were on a treadmill of life and we had to get off. This went on forever and became quite tedious to experience.

These second two exercises, I wondered if they were a form of waking hypnosis?? Might they be?

One good thing I've realised from answering this question is that I am no longer triggered by remembering these experiences. Yet when I wrote out notes of my memories about 3 months after participating in the LGAT, I experienced pain in my head as if someone was tightening a band around my forehead. I kid you not. That surprised me so much that for a long time I didn't dare think about any of this again. Yet tonight, nothing. And I'm free of that brainwashing.

Ha, here is what Google reveals.

[www.google.com]

Get Confident, Stupid! | GQ
[www.gq.com]
May 22, 2012 - In fact, many then go on to take the increasingly expensive and intense courses in Landmark Education's "Curriculum for Living. .... Yes, back in the '90s, Werner Erhard sold his business to a group of employees, but this is not est. .... (I suppose those two circles he drew on the board really drove it home.) ...

The Pros & Cons of LGATs -- Large Group Awareness Trainings
www.enlightened-spirituality.org/LGATs.html
On the Landmark Forum and its earlier incarnation as The est Training and The Forum; the philosophy of Werner Erhard; and the dynamics of these LGAT / Large Group Awareness Trainings (including not just Landmark, but also implicating Lifespring, Humanus, ...... He grabs some chalk and draws two circles on the board.

[PDF]Brainwashing in a Large Group Awareness Training?
[researchspace.ukzn.ac.za]?...

Sep 11, 2015 - Werner Erhard) in 1971, is widely considered to be the first LGAT (Langone, 1998; Pressman,. 1993). .... (Landmark Education bought Werner Erhard's technology in 1991) (Pressman, 1993). “Yes I was also ...... As the final exercise all participants were made to stand in two circles, one inside the other, and ...

Article of Faith | Features | Pittsburgh | Pittsburgh City Paper
[www.pghcitypaper.com]
The stigma is somewhat understandable: Landmark Education has roots in est, a controversial "life training" program founded by Werner Erhard, a used car salesman from New Jersey whose real name was Jack ... They renamed the company Landmark Education. .... Bernasek draws two circles on a dry-erase board.

Another person's description of the fear exercise.

[medium.com]

Quote

Fear exercise
this was the biggest no-no to me…and I actually stepped out after this…

an hour long exercise had us all sit with our eyes closed and the coach walked us through feeling intense terrorizing fear. We were told to be truly terrified of the people sitting next to us?—?everyone in the room?—?everyone in california?—?everyone in the states?—?everyone on the globe. He dramatically dragged it out for roughly 30 minutes telling us to think of being traumatized, to think of our childhood and to truly meet fear. People in the room were screaming, crying, belting out “help me.” To be honest, I tried to participate because I wanted to know if there was somehting here but I ended up just feeling frustrated by the insensitivity and emotional abuse this was to people.

after traumatizing probably a dozen of 150 people, he then said, “look beyond the fear and see what’s there….this whole time you thought you were afraid of people, they are actually afraid of YOU. everyone in the world is afraid of YOU. you are the most powerful person in the world.”
bottom line is emotional abuse?—?they can’t keep doing this.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2018 09:37AM by corboy.

The fear exercise is the most obvious, but they also have other, more subtle ways of instilling fear.

You will walk into the Center, and someone there will inquire about some detail of your personal life which you had not shared anyone at Landmark. This creeped me out much more than the fear meditation, which was more straightforward. You will wonder how they knew that, and then you will remember that you had met your recruiter in a twelve-step group, and that you had shared that information in the 12-step group. The whole thing gives you the feeling that "big brother is watching," and is very creepy. Then, if you say anything about it, you DO sound paranoid.

On the last night of the forum, (Tuesday night), the forum leader makes vague, but thinly veiled, threats against anyone who says that Landmark does not work for them, then quickly moves on to talk about "possibilities" and other feel-good material. I knew that other people beside me were also made uncomfortable by this, but let it blow over. They would rather focus on the "positives," than to hold his feet to the fire and remain uncomfortable. It is easy to tell oneself that "he really didn't mean that the way it sounded."

Hints and vagueness are powerful means of delivering threats or reprimands.

A precise threat can be dealt with - you can come up with a solution. Or, realize it is bullshit.

A vague threat casts shadows. Will I go insane? How? Omigod Condition X runs in my family. Or, maybe I do drink too much or eat too much junk food and better do something about it. Or ....on and on and on.

Vague hints of disapproval are the same - they leave room for our imaginations and shame issues to take over.

Where did I offend? No one said anything to me at the the time, or was I too stupid to pick up that I'd done something wrong. Omigod, how long have I been doing something wrong and no one told me. Or am I really as socially inept as they say I am...on and on and on.

Very different from someone saying, so and So is angry because you forgot to put cream and one sugar in his coffee.

That is specific information on how you incurred disapproval. And it leaves room for you to do at least one of two things.

* Say you understand this, thanks for telling me.

* Think to yourself that anyone who gets ANGRY at such a small thing means it is
all about him, not about me.

This leaves room for you to think,

a) Maybe he is having a bad day.
b) If he keeps getting angry over tiny things like this, I'd better dump him
look for another job, and until I find another job, document everything at work so I can make a case for myself if things get worse.

Vagueness, whether vague threats or vague reprimands is a recipe for crazymaking and fear induction.