I can't answer your question....
First of all, I don't even think millions and millions af people have taken the Landmark Forum and Est combined.
someplace in the archive of alt.fan.landamark there is mention of
about 15 to 20 percent of american
adults have done the forum.
i dont know of any way to verify this but
i dont think asking landmark would be
of much help.
Also, out of the participants I would venture to say only a fraction of them felt abused. That fraction is a vocal fraction.
abuse has become so ingrained in so
many people in this country that of course
they wouldnt feel it was abuse.
and also i will mention that many people
that i have spoken to in the past that have
thrown up against walls,
locked in closets
had their teeth pulled out with pliars
etc etc etc
dont think this kind of thing is wrong either.
many of these people have i have described have told me that they would
raise their children the very same way
made them better people.
For example, the two Brothers who wrote the Matrix did the entire program and wrote the the movie as a hommage to the work--be a cause in ones life but nobody talks about that. The guy who wrote Fight Club still participates but noone reallt talks about that. Because these are people who just out there livin their lives. Dr. Phil did Est but No one ever mentions that. The Breast Cancer Walk is inspired by the Self Expression and Leadership Program. These are people clearly making an IMPACT on the world. So the effect of the Landmark Forum is out there in many positive ways. T
this is what get from grads. they can
go to landmark and be abused but
because of the hynosis they are made
to feel better about themselves.
u are either in denial or have changed
sides and become a pro landmark
abuse is wrong. the fact that so many
dont think its any more doesnt change the
fact that abuse , no matter what the
result aftwares is wrong.
Every Forum is different in so far as the conversations that take place inside the distinctions. A business man brings a different concern to the room than a retired school teacher than a college student.
ok, lets say its only thousand and
thousands of people. these people
have been manipulated by landmark.
keeping in mind that many of them
now feel better about themselves
do u feel it is wrong for landmark to
have done this ?
No. I think the tactics used in Est in in the Werner days are wrong. And I can tell you that Landmark Leaders are being responsible about things that have happened in the past.
u just made the statement that landmar
has in the last few years changed. what
about what landmark did to the people
before they suppodely changed.
finally i get an an swer to my question.
u say that what est did was wrong, now
being that landmark is basically the same
thing as est with some changes, and for
the sake of argument i will go along with
u and say they have changed their ways,
now landmark before it changed was still
landmark and they have abused and
do u feel this is wrong
I live inside a commitment of making a difference with people and I think one result is people feeling good about themselves so I do not think Landmark is wrong.
if your commitment was to condone abuse
to people because when it was over the
people through psycological manipulattion
then felt better about themselves.
in other words ispsycologial manuplation
acceptable to u if the end result is
that the person feels better about
themselves maybe for
years to come?
If no one in the world called anyone to be what would the world be like?
if u would restate this sentence, i dont
have a clue what it means.
Would we all just sit around feeling sorry that we thought our mom never wanted us, or our parents got divorced....It's such bullshit get over it and live life.
get over it under hypnosis, get over it
and become a being of no right and wrong.
get over it and be a landmark volunteer.
get over it and have no meaning to your
under the hypnosis of landmark most
people feel better about themselves.
they get over it.
how do they get over it ?
they get over it by stating it has no
express, if landmark uses parts of but
not limited to parts of scientology, jinn,
hypnotism, would u agree that it worked
for u and therefore u cant really complain
I am very clear that you are going to believe what you are going to believe out of your conversation with graduates and what you have read and nothing I am going to say is going to change that....nor is that my intention.
typical response. we are having a discussion
which is some ways is making both of
us think as we converse with each other
and then here comes the ole landmark
way out of it.
u are going to believe what u are going
to belive and then maybe at some point
u can say that u are going believe what
u are going to belive and then that should
be taken as the last word and therefore
conversation basically stops.
What is so wrong with people causing their lives?
there is not one landmark grad who is
being cause for their lives. the landmark
couses do not create open minded thinkers
out of anybody.
the cause of your life, the cause of your
relationships becomes landmark.
u do not create possibilitties out of nothingness. u are being landmark.
u are not creating possibilites. landmark
changes the meaning of the words and
creating out of nothingness is really
and so we dont forget
if landmark has used abusive , maniplative
ways on people is this wrong.
a simple yes or no will do
The answer to the question in no.