lets talk about abuse
Posted by:
patrick-darcy
()
Date: May 22, 2003 03:29AM
no landmark grad has ever been able
to answer that and i have asked many
of them.
if there was real resonsibility in landmark
why it that i have never found a grad that
has ever shown any responsibility for
any of the other grads.
its not there. when it comes to discussing
landmarks responsibility for what it
has done to people in the past there is none.
i hear usually what u just said, and that is
they need to or have just changed.
isnt that strange
u have attended an event , in this case
the forum that at the very least has been
very very abusive to many many people
and u cant comment on it.
think about that.
i have a question for u now.
is the abuse and manipulation that
landmark has done to people in the past
wrong.
do u feel that what they have done is wrong.
please answer
thanks
when landmark teaches there is no right
or wrong, at least for them its the truth.
and if there is no truth when it comes to
landmark , then that is a lie.
to answer that and i have asked many
of them.
if there was real resonsibility in landmark
why it that i have never found a grad that
has ever shown any responsibility for
any of the other grads.
its not there. when it comes to discussing
landmarks responsibility for what it
has done to people in the past there is none.
i hear usually what u just said, and that is
they need to or have just changed.
isnt that strange
u have attended an event , in this case
the forum that at the very least has been
very very abusive to many many people
and u cant comment on it.
think about that.
i have a question for u now.
is the abuse and manipulation that
landmark has done to people in the past
wrong.
do u feel that what they have done is wrong.
please answer
thanks
when landmark teaches there is no right
or wrong, at least for them its the truth.
and if there is no truth when it comes to
landmark , then that is a lie.
lets talk about abuse
Posted by:
patrick-darcy
()
Date: May 22, 2003 08:00AM
Quote
express
I can't answer your question....
First of all, I don't even think millions and millions af people have taken the Landmark Forum and Est combined.
someplace in the archive of alt.fan.landamark there is mention of
about 15 to 20 percent of american
adults have done the forum.
i dont know of any way to verify this but
i dont think asking landmark would be
of much help.
Also, out of the participants I would venture to say only a fraction of them felt abused. That fraction is a vocal fraction.
abuse has become so ingrained in so
many people in this country that of course
they wouldnt feel it was abuse.
and also i will mention that many people
that i have spoken to in the past that have
been abuse,
screamed at
thrown up against walls,
spit on
locked in closets
had their teeth pulled out with pliars
slapped
etc etc etc
dont think this kind of thing is wrong either.
many of these people have i have described have told me that they would
raise their children the very same way
because it
made them better people.
For example, the two Brothers who wrote the Matrix did the entire program and wrote the the movie as a hommage to the work--be a cause in ones life but nobody talks about that. The guy who wrote Fight Club still participates but noone reallt talks about that. Because these are people who just out there livin their lives. Dr. Phil did Est but No one ever mentions that. The Breast Cancer Walk is inspired by the Self Expression and Leadership Program. These are people clearly making an IMPACT on the world. So the effect of the Landmark Forum is out there in many positive ways. T
this is what get from grads. they can
go to landmark and be abused but
because of the hynosis they are made
to feel better about themselves.
u are either in denial or have changed
sides and become a pro landmark
person.
abuse is wrong. the fact that so many
dont think its any more doesnt change the
fact that abuse , no matter what the
result aftwares is wrong.
Every Forum is different in so far as the conversations that take place inside the distinctions. A business man brings a different concern to the room than a retired school teacher than a college student.
and these people become hypnotised
and then feel better about whatever
is bothering them, abused along the
way, indoctrinated along the way,
landmark had a hunger project at one time.
they were gonna rid the planet of hunger,
it turns out that the donations made for
the project were mainly put in landmarks
coffers.
this is wrong.
they also are going into third world countries
of course these people feel good about
themselves and so landmark will prosper
there also.
lets talk about abuse
Posted by:
patrick-darcy
()
Date: May 22, 2003 08:01AM
ok, lets say its only thousand and
thousands of people. these people
have been manipulated by landmark.
keeping in mind that many of them
now feel better about themselves
do u feel it is wrong for landmark to
have done this ?
thousands of people. these people
have been manipulated by landmark.
keeping in mind that many of them
now feel better about themselves
do u feel it is wrong for landmark to
have done this ?
lets talk about abuse
Posted by:
express
()
Date: May 22, 2003 10:38PM
ok, lets say its only thousand and
thousands of people. these people
have been manipulated by landmark.
keeping in mind that many of them
now feel better about themselves
do u feel it is wrong for landmark to
have done this ?
No. I think the tactics used in Est in in the Werner days are wrong. And I can tell you that Landmark Leaders are being responsible about things that have happened in the past.
I live inside a commitment of making a difference with people and I think one result is people feeling good about themselves so I do not think Landmark is wrong. If no one in the world called anyone to be what would the world be like? Would we all just sit around feeling sorry that we thought our mom never wanted us, or our parents got divorced....It's such bullshit get over it and live life.
I am very clear that you are going to believe what you are going to believe out of your conversation with graduates and what you have read and nothing I am going to say is going to change that....nor is that my intention.
What is so wrong with people causing their lives?
thousands of people. these people
have been manipulated by landmark.
keeping in mind that many of them
now feel better about themselves
do u feel it is wrong for landmark to
have done this ?
No. I think the tactics used in Est in in the Werner days are wrong. And I can tell you that Landmark Leaders are being responsible about things that have happened in the past.
I live inside a commitment of making a difference with people and I think one result is people feeling good about themselves so I do not think Landmark is wrong. If no one in the world called anyone to be what would the world be like? Would we all just sit around feeling sorry that we thought our mom never wanted us, or our parents got divorced....It's such bullshit get over it and live life.
I am very clear that you are going to believe what you are going to believe out of your conversation with graduates and what you have read and nothing I am going to say is going to change that....nor is that my intention.
What is so wrong with people causing their lives?
lets talk about abuse
Posted by:
patrick-darcy
()
Date: May 23, 2003 03:10AM
Quote
express
ok, lets say its only thousand and
thousands of people. these people
have been manipulated by landmark.
keeping in mind that many of them
now feel better about themselves
do u feel it is wrong for landmark to
have done this ?
No. I think the tactics used in Est in in the Werner days are wrong. And I can tell you that Landmark Leaders are being responsible about things that have happened in the past.
u just made the statement that landmar
has in the last few years changed. what
about what landmark did to the people
before they suppodely changed.
finally i get an an swer to my question.
u say that what est did was wrong, now
being that landmark is basically the same
thing as est with some changes, and for
the sake of argument i will go along with
u and say they have changed their ways,
now landmark before it changed was still
landmark and they have abused and
minipulated people.
do u feel this is wrong
I live inside a commitment of making a difference with people and I think one result is people feeling good about themselves so I do not think Landmark is wrong.
if your commitment was to condone abuse
to people because when it was over the
people through psycological manipulattion
then felt better about themselves.
in other words ispsycologial manuplation
acceptable to u if the end result is
that the person feels better about
themselves maybe for
years to come?
If no one in the world called anyone to be what would the world be like?
if u would restate this sentence, i dont
have a clue what it means.
Would we all just sit around feeling sorry that we thought our mom never wanted us, or our parents got divorced....It's such bullshit get over it and live life.
get over it under hypnosis, get over it
and become a being of no right and wrong.
get over it and be a landmark volunteer.
get over it and have no meaning to your
life.
under the hypnosis of landmark most
people feel better about themselves.
they get over it.
how do they get over it ?
they get over it by stating it has no
meaning.
express, if landmark uses parts of but
not limited to parts of scientology, jinn,
hypnotism, would u agree that it worked
for u and therefore u cant really complain
about it.
I am very clear that you are going to believe what you are going to believe out of your conversation with graduates and what you have read and nothing I am going to say is going to change that....nor is that my intention.
typical response. we are having a discussion
which is some ways is making both of
us think as we converse with each other
and then here comes the ole landmark
way out of it.
u are going to believe what u are going
to belive and then maybe at some point
u can say that u are going believe what
u are going to belive and then that should
be taken as the last word and therefore
conversation basically stops.
What is so wrong with people causing their lives?
there is not one landmark grad who is
being cause for their lives. the landmark
couses do not create open minded thinkers
out of anybody.
the cause of your life, the cause of your
relationships becomes landmark.
u do not create possibilitties out of nothingness. u are being landmark.
u are not creating possibilites. landmark
changes the meaning of the words and
creating out of nothingness is really
quite meaningles.
and so we dont forget
if landmark has used abusive , maniplative
ways on people is this wrong.
a simple yes or no will do
thanks
lets talk about abuse
Posted by:
elena
()
Date: May 23, 2003 04:44AM
Express said:
"ok, lets say its only thousand and
thousands of people. these people
have been manipulated by landmark.
keeping in mind that many of them
now feel better about themselves
do u feel it is wrong for landmark to
have done this ?"
Many people feel "better" under the influence of alcohol, drugs, rip-off "dietary supplements," costly, ineffective pharmaceuticals, weird religious involvements. odd obsessive-compulsive-type complexes, or the ordinary escapist/avoidant personality quirks. So what? Bring your argument into some sort of intellectual rigor or no one with any critical thinking skills will take you seriously. Adolf Hitler could claim many happy constituents.
"No. I think the tactics used in Est in in the Werner days are wrong. And I can tell you that Landmark Leaders are being responsible about things that have happened in the past."
Oh please. The "kinder/gentler" Landmark has nothing but "cosmetic" changes since est. Read what the insiders have said before you go shooting off your mouth about "Leaders Taking Responsiblility," blah, blah, blah......
"I live inside a commitment of making a difference with people and I think one result is people feeling good about themselves so I do not think Landmark is wrong. If no one in the world called anyone to be what would the world be like? Would we all just sit around feeling sorry that we thought our mom never wanted us, or our parents got divorced....It's such bullshit get over it and live life."
One day you may tire of parrotting est/Landmark/Co$ phrases/concpets. You've repeated eight according to my rough count in the above paragraph. Reclaim what's left of your own mind before it's too late.
"I am very clear that you are going to believe what you are going to believe out of your conversation with graduates and what you have read and nothing I am going to say is going to change that....nor is that my intention.
What is so wrong with people causing their lives?"
Mightn't it trouble you the tiniest little bit that you are repeating some "concept" cooked up by that creepy old windbag L. Ron Hubbard, who "transformed" it from a combination of ancient and respected teachings into a weirdo cult precept? Look up "at Cause" or "Being at Cause" in the scientology dictionary.
Ellen
"ok, lets say its only thousand and
thousands of people. these people
have been manipulated by landmark.
keeping in mind that many of them
now feel better about themselves
do u feel it is wrong for landmark to
have done this ?"
Many people feel "better" under the influence of alcohol, drugs, rip-off "dietary supplements," costly, ineffective pharmaceuticals, weird religious involvements. odd obsessive-compulsive-type complexes, or the ordinary escapist/avoidant personality quirks. So what? Bring your argument into some sort of intellectual rigor or no one with any critical thinking skills will take you seriously. Adolf Hitler could claim many happy constituents.
"No. I think the tactics used in Est in in the Werner days are wrong. And I can tell you that Landmark Leaders are being responsible about things that have happened in the past."
Oh please. The "kinder/gentler" Landmark has nothing but "cosmetic" changes since est. Read what the insiders have said before you go shooting off your mouth about "Leaders Taking Responsiblility," blah, blah, blah......
"I live inside a commitment of making a difference with people and I think one result is people feeling good about themselves so I do not think Landmark is wrong. If no one in the world called anyone to be what would the world be like? Would we all just sit around feeling sorry that we thought our mom never wanted us, or our parents got divorced....It's such bullshit get over it and live life."
One day you may tire of parrotting est/Landmark/Co$ phrases/concpets. You've repeated eight according to my rough count in the above paragraph. Reclaim what's left of your own mind before it's too late.
"I am very clear that you are going to believe what you are going to believe out of your conversation with graduates and what you have read and nothing I am going to say is going to change that....nor is that my intention.
What is so wrong with people causing their lives?"
Mightn't it trouble you the tiniest little bit that you are repeating some "concept" cooked up by that creepy old windbag L. Ron Hubbard, who "transformed" it from a combination of ancient and respected teachings into a weirdo cult precept? Look up "at Cause" or "Being at Cause" in the scientology dictionary.
Ellen
lets talk about abuse
Posted by:
express
()
Date: May 24, 2003 01:01AM
P.D.
The answer to the question in no.
The answer to the question in no.
lets talk about abuse
Posted by:
patrick-darcy
()
Date: May 24, 2003 08:24AM
Quote
express
P.D.
The answer to the question in no.
your reply is absolutely100 percent
cult think. abusing some people because it makes them feel better is ok, because
when its over they feel better.
not only is this the correct cult type
answer, its also the answer that many
abused people give when they refer
to the people that abuse them.
u say its wrong because est did it.
u would probably its wrong if it did it
but if landmark does it it isnt wrong.
landmark preaches there is no right
or wrong, and for practically every
landmark grad that i have spoken to
that is pro landmark will say the same
thing. its amazing.
abuse is wrong in the world unless
landmark does it.
quite interesting.
this is why so landmark has had such
a task in attempting to distance itself
from the cult word. the truth is because
landmark is a cult.
Re: lets talk about abuse
Posted by:
darlinzk
()
Date: March 06, 2010 06:29AM
However, I found these seminars to be a FRAUD. Later, I found out that the owner's godson, Donovan Miguel Urbina McKendrick, is a known sex offender. This company, psi-seminars, claims to better people - emotionally, economically, spiritually. How can a company claim to be great for it's followers when the owner can't even raise her godson right?
I found this information on these sites:
[dontdatehimgirl.com] and
[www.womansavers.com]
I found this information on these sites:
[dontdatehimgirl.com] and
[www.womansavers.com]
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.