so I had no idea about the world of lgat seminars until my recent ex gf went to Choices Seminar. she spawned it on me after 6 months of dating and went as a coach as she had completed all other courses. she tried to recruit me multiple times each time more insulting.

After she returned, she was not the same girl. very self centered, egotistical, mean, non loving etc. She dumped me cold over phone and no closure at all, even though things had been great. and continued to hoover and rub things n my face as well as blame me for everything while never owning up to herself or realizing her behaviors. she would always reply in a tantrum and insult me instead of answering questions or talking, respecting my thoughts.

any way, my curiosity struck me when she posted an emotional rambling on Facebook today. In summ the message said:

1) bluntly said in first sentence she doesn't have many friends and ppl find that strange but she doesn't and is ok with it. has a few dear to her and that's all she needs.

2) States in her opinion, 3 types of ppl - ppl who take comfort in people, material things and places. That she is the places type and traveling is what makes her feel "alive"

3) more rambling about why travel feeds the fibers of her life etc. (mind you shes advebturous and has traveled some, but not all that much)

part of this in my opinion comes from a 2 week trip to Germany coming up in few weeks with a guy friend alone (no romantic link, but she did travel with him and spend equal time with him over me during our 6 months together. I know for a fact there's no way she can afford to miss 2 weeks of work/pay and afford this trip. Either he's paying for it all or she's losing her critical thinking ability.

Part of me believes a friend or family member had a talking with her about her priorities in life and this was her way to validate her beliefs and receive adoration. the message read very depressing but I won't post bc of privacy.

shes almost 34,never married nor seems to want real reationship, high narcisstic tendencies and is mormon, but not super strict. she herself admits that she's private on social media and she's the least emotional girl I've dated. also she's very defensive and has a very self entitled approach to life. She blew up and got way dramatic and emotionally abused me in our relationship (very similar method to the lgat process of brainwashing) and lied wildly about me to build herself up often. This is the first time in 7 months I've seen any sign of vulnerability in her.

Therefore, this post scares me for her health bc it's way out of character for her pre-Choices. this isn't about us reconnecting, it's more that I have a soft spot for signs of depression bc i myself battled it clinically for 6 years with professional therapy. I'm especially worried bc she has no one to go to in Mormon community who would offer a different view, she doesn't believe in therapy and will rely on her Choices buddies which will reinforce her life choices.

My questions to the community may be simple or already stated, I apologize I'm new to all of this. But...

1) Do lgat members often become depressed 2 months after attending?

2) Does anyone else read this as depressing or am I overthinking bc I do care and miss her a bit? the real her anyway.

3)Does Lgat enhance narcissism?

4) she views everything as her "reality" and any help or reaction is that person's fault. She's blind to her behaviors and lack of empathy, but in this message she's trying to validate her "reality" with her admirers and social media friends who are mostly distant, mormon, or choices friends. Does thing feeling of validation come more from lgat or narcissism?

Any and all advice or common experiences with losing a loved one to lgat is more than appreciated as I'm very new to all this.

thank you and God bless

I strongly encourage you to buy and read this book Cults Inside Out: How People Get in and Can Get Out [www.amazon.com] The whole book will be useful, there is specific information on lgats too.

I've attended lgats, also had friends that were temporarily adversely affected by lgats.

If I were in your shoes now, I would remind myself to not panic, and to focus first on my own well being. I would talk with friends, develop a stable and healthy daily life, get a medical checkup if need be. Calm and stable is a priority.

If my ex was involved in an lgat, I would stop reading their social media posts. I would keep working on focusing on my own well being. I'd read the book I suggested, taking my time to think and learn. I would educate myself further on lgats, or maybe even give myself a break for awhile so I can rest and enjoy life.

Coping with cult members [culteducation.com]

liminal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I strongly encourage you to buy and read this book
> Cults Inside Out: How People Get in and Can Get
> Out
> [www.amazon.com]
> /dp/149731660X The whole book will be useful,
> there is specific information on lgats too.
>
> I've attended lgats, also had friends that were
> temporarily adversely affected by lgats.
>
> If I were in your shoes now, I would remind myself
> to not panic, and to focus first on my own well
> being. I would talk with friends, develop a stable
> and healthy daily life, get a medical checkup if
> need be. Calm and stable is a priority.
>
> If my ex was involved in an lgat, I would stop
> reading their social media posts. I would keep
> working on focusing on my own well being. I'd read
> the book I suggested, taking my time to think and
> learn. I would educate myself further on lgats, or
> maybe even give myself a break for awhile so I can
> rest and enjoy life.
>
> Coping with cult members
> [culteducation.com]
> n


Thank you for reply. did you and your friends have similar symptoms? are lgats common to ruin relationships?

also I've seen a recent pic of her,and she has a deep soul less, glossy eyed gaze now. random ppl who never met her, looked at the pic and didn't even think it was the same girl.

any body been or have known someone in choices acting like this?

[forum.culteducation.com] Here is a thread on Choices, including the experiences of participants.

Also read this [culteducation.com]
including the warning signs of a person potentially involved in an unsafe group

liminal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [forum.culteducation.com]
> ge=1 Here is a thread on Choices, including the
> experiences of participants.
>
> Also read this
> [culteducation.com]
> including the warning signs of a person
> potentially involved in an unsafe group

I've read up on here about choices and lgat,was just wondering if anyone could share a personal ec6that would help me make sense of things.

thank you

sportsguy44 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> liminal Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> [forum.culteducation.com]
>
> > ge=1 Here is a thread on Choices, including the
> > experiences of participants.
> >
> > Also read this
> > [culteducation.com]
> > including the warning signs of a person
> > potentially involved in an unsafe group
>
> I've read up on here about choices and lgat,was
> just wondering if anyone could share a personal
> ec6that would help me make sense of things.
>
> thank you


After more research and conversation with my therapist, she mentioned that her actions and the lgat prey on depressed individuals. Bc she was so private and secretive about her life, I start to wonder if she wasn't a narci5but just severely severely depressed and used blame and anger to justify things. almost like she was doing everything she can to avoid being happy, bc as soon as we were finished, she acted out like the perfect girl, innocent victim mentality on social media. far from her true self that was around me.

so I guess my question for the more experienced in lgat relationships, do lgats make depressed individuals more depressed and inherently teach them to avoid happiness and meaningful lives? which would then allow for choices to be her dependency?

Hello Sportguy44,

I'm sorry you've had this traumatic experience. I hope my experiences with Landmark, another lgat gives you some answers. And when I joined I had to sign a disclaimer that I was not suffering from depression. And that is because they know that the experience might trigger negative responses from those who join in a low or depressed frame of mind.

In hindsight (its always 20/20 isn't it) I should not have joined because I was in a very low state but I wanted social contact and the large group experience drew me in.

To answer your question in your last post, and going from my own experience, they don't openly teach people to avoid happiness and meaningful lives. In fact they say that doing their courses will give you just that - better relationships, more successful careers, personal fulfilment.

But from reading this forum, focusing mostly on Landmark I admit, they also use hidden techniques - such as waking hypnosis, controlling the environment of the room, giving you very little personal space or time to think - and this trips the body's natural dopamine so that you leave on a high and feeling super-human. I experienced the high very strongly but it did not feel right. So I didn't trust it. And therefore I didn't make an rash changes to my life. It lasted about 3-4 weeks. Helped along by weekly sessions after the initial weekend workshop occurred.

And if you enter this space in either a low mood or a depressed frame of mind, it can lead to psychotic episodes or mental breakdowns. I think its because they tap into primal fears that we all have and make you believe that only their way of thinking will save you. That was my take on it all.

I was saved by my sceptical mind and the people in my group who were drawn to me were equally sceptical which prevented all of us from being totally sucked in.

But just before I left, I awoke in the middle of the night, experiencing the worst fear ever from this group. And I never went back.

They make members dependent by saying that only people who have had this experience (and teachings) will understand you now. And all the people in your life who have not done this will not understand you any more. So you need to persuade them to do this course. And if somebody totally believes this, then they move away from anybody who says it is wrong if they can't persuade them to join up.

So its not about teaching negativity, its more complex than that. Its a form of brain washing and mind control which is far worse. I hope this helps.

And if you have patience, do read up on the threads on here. I found them very helpful, even for courses that I hadn't been on. I was then able to see similar patterns across all lgats and now I can spot them for what they are without getting involved. Good luck and I hope you come through this.

wow thank you for sharing! sorry you had to go through all that. Yeah she's unrecognizable now to the woman she was. Everything is negative and all of her social media posts went from jokes and pictures to sad and depressing things. she even looks emaciated in her latest picture.

I fear that she's so far gone, she gets rid of things that make her happy bc to her life should be empty and meaningless. she also literally has no real friends to call or hang out with. and I do mean none.

also the part about persuading? She asked me 5 times after returning to go, one time even demanded it. a week after I finally said no and she insulted me for not going, she left cold and dry.

thanks again for the information and advice very much appreciated.

I guess my biggest confusion is that if they promote healthier relationships why do they run from the good relationships they've forged? what changes in their feelings I guess.

also is it common for lgats followers to leave relationships? do they ever find love?

lastly, can a relationship between non lgat and lgat believer ever co-exist healthy?

thank you again everyone. promise I'm not trying to sound like a sap or all woe is me. I'm just shocked and curious at the same time.

Hi Sportguy44,

To answer some of your questions

why do they promote participants getting healthier relationships from doing their course? Because that is the bait to lure someone in.

Why does a person who took the course then run from a good relationship? I can't answer that one specifically but,from my own lgat experience,they put huge pressure on you to bring all your friends and family to their fold. Its exhausting. About every 15-20 mins over 3 days, a bit like the advert breaks on TV, they keep reminding you how much better this experience will be for you if you bring your family and friends along to be converts.

From this I can conclude, that if a person is committed to this new way of life and they don't want to be around any one who doubts this way,then that might be why they end a good relationship. They value what they get from the lgat more than that relationship. Hard to hear, this I'm sure but that would be my take on this.

I think it would be very hard to have a lasting relationship or even friendship with a person who has committed to a lgat. From my pov, I would get tired of the constant pressure to join and I couldn't put up with the jargon. And I'd crave a normal conversation.

btw - I don't think you come across as a sap. Your response is a natural one to what is a horrible/confusing and upsetting experience in losing someone you love in this way. I think your desire to understand is great and hopefully, it will help you through this difficult time.